Log in to ZYGOR
Log in with social media
OR
Log in with Zygor account

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Gear Upgrade rating/weights, Pawn and similar addons, and conflicting suggestions?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Gear Upgrade rating/weights, Pawn and similar addons, and conflicting suggestions?

    Hello everyone. Overall I am pleased with what Zygor offers, but alas there is one feature that can sometimes be confusing - the gear rating/suggestion system. Prior to using Zygor, I looked to other addons for gear upgrade suggestions, most notably Pawn ( https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/pawn ), which displays info in a very similar way to Zygor's gear/upgrade features, but I've also used AskMrRobot and others. Unfortunately, it seems there is some disconnect between the suggestions given by Pawn (I'll focus on Pawn for now for clarity's sake) versus Zygor, as I often find gear that one will say is an upgrade and the other will say is neutral or a downgrade. I am attempting to understand why this might be.

    I am guessing this has to do with the stats and weights priority in each particular mod and the scales to which they are applied for a given class/spec. Pawn (and AskMrRobot) for instance is based upon info from AskMrRobot.com, though other addons may use sources like IcyVeins and/or SimulationCraft. However, it is typical for many of these sites "agree" on various weights/priorities for a class, at least after a little while for them to hash out the math. I have been using Pawn in its default state (ie I am not customizing the weights), so I assume this is using the standard data points. The issue arises when Pawn and the Zygor Advisor give conflicting suggestions, such as one piece of gear being seen as an upgrade or neutral on Pawn and a downgrade on Zygor or vice versa. Given that shortly after each patch, most of the "major" stat sites agree on general stat priority for a given class/spec, I am guessing that either Zygor is using stat weights of their own generation or are applying them differently than most of these common mods, such Pawn's / AMR defaults are typical Raid/Dungeon PVE priority stats for each class but Zygor is offering a different setup for open world questing by default?

    I was hoping for more information on what gives Zygor its defaults and why they differ, as well as to discuss some additions that may better clarify things. For instance, Zygor's gear option area shows its stat weights and one can compare it to those in Pawn, AMR, SimCraft or for that matter, copy one to the other but it doesn't illustrate why there is a discrepancy either. Since Zygor does such a good job explaining many other parts of the guides/mod, perhaps it would be possible to add a options to use various stat weights for various situations and sources? Beyond that I am sure this would take a good bit of work but could be helpful for many who don't spend the time hunting over the sites or spreadsheets - a gear advisor that, in line with the weights and whatnot, will actually inform the user in plain language "Your priority right now for X Class, Y spec, is Haste, up until XX%. Then comes Critical Strike until YY% and after that as much Mastery as possible", so that people could optionally know why the advisor is suggesting certain things in terms of different weight and whatnot.

    Any information would be helpful - Thank you!

    #2
    The stats we use are loosely based on the other sites like Ask Mr. Robot, Noxxic, etc. but we adjust them for solo survivability. The sites out there, as you mentioned, are based on end game max dps for dungeons and raids but our guides are focused more on the solo questing side of the game so we balance the stats a bit more toward that aspect. Our stat weights should be passable for most dungeons and LFR but they won't land you at the top of the dps charts (but a good rotation can do more for dps than the stats ). You can use whichever stat weights you're more comfortable with, it's just a matter of one is a bit more toward survival and one is a bit more toward pure dps.
    Become a Fan of Zygor Guides on Facebook:
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Zygor-...04933799556988

    Follow Zygor Guides on Twitter:
    http://twitter.com/zygorguides

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by rancejustice View Post
      Hello everyone. Overall I am pleased with what Zygor offers, but alas there is one feature that can sometimes be confusing - the gear rating/suggestion system. Prior to using Zygor, I looked to other addons for gear upgrade suggestions, most notably Pawn ( https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/pawn ), which displays info in a very similar way to Zygor's gear/upgrade features, but I've also used AskMrRobot and others. Unfortunately, it seems there is some disconnect between the suggestions given by Pawn (I'll focus on Pawn for now for clarity's sake) versus Zygor, as I often find gear that one will say is an upgrade and the other will say is neutral or a downgrade. I am attempting to understand why this might be.

      I am guessing this has to do with the stats and weights priority in each particular mod and the scales to which they are applied for a given class/spec. Pawn (and AskMrRobot) for instance is based upon info from AskMrRobot.com, though other addons may use sources like IcyVeins and/or SimulationCraft. However, it is typical for many of these sites "agree" on various weights/priorities for a class, at least after a little while for them to hash out the math. I have been using Pawn in its default state (ie I am not customizing the weights), so I assume this is using the standard data points. The issue arises when Pawn and the Zygor Advisor give conflicting suggestions, such as one piece of gear being seen as an upgrade or neutral on Pawn and a downgrade on Zygor or vice versa. Given that shortly after each patch, most of the "major" stat sites agree on general stat priority for a given class/spec, I am guessing that either Zygor is using stat weights of their own generation or are applying them differently than most of these common mods, such Pawn's / AMR defaults are typical Raid/Dungeon PVE priority stats for each class but Zygor is offering a different setup for open world questing by default?

      I was hoping for more information on what gives Zygor its defaults and why they differ, as well as to discuss some additions that may better clarify things. For instance, Zygor's gear option area shows its stat weights and one can compare it to those in Pawn, AMR, SimCraft or for that matter, copy one to the other but it doesn't illustrate why there is a discrepancy either. Since Zygor does such a good job explaining many other parts of the guides/mod, perhaps it would be possible to add a options to use various stat weights for various situations and sources? Beyond that I am sure this would take a good bit of work but could be helpful for many who don't spend the time hunting over the sites or spreadsheets - a gear advisor that, in line with the weights and whatnot, will actually inform the user in plain language "Your priority right now for X Class, Y spec, is Haste, up until XX%. Then comes Critical Strike until YY% and after that as much Mastery as possible", so that people could optionally know why the advisor is suggesting certain things in terms of different weight and whatnot.

      Any information would be helpful - Thank you!
      you should just use simulationcraft and then put what weights it says are best for YOU into a custom pawn string, it differs on what gear you have on.

      Comment


        #4
        Yeah, Pawn's default suggestions for stat weights are ... bad. Very, very, bad. They don't take into account racial abilities like Darkness, don't take into account artifact weapon level or abilities, fight logic, strategies, lag, player skill, or anything else useful.

        Pawn's default suggestions should be considered baseline at best, and outright useless at worst.

        As Zygor said, their generic stats skew more to soloing and leveling, so they don't account for the above either.

        SimulationCraft is excellent, but it does not support any healing specs currently, as they do not have a developer for those. Also, I have noticed some errors in their input logic. You can override these errors if you know what to look for and how to fix them before running the sim. Looking at you, wrong food buff....

        AskMrRobot is the most accurate, as you can easily tweak their simulation with easy to read drop down menus and tick boxes.

        But whatever sim you use, take that data and overwrite both Pawn and Zygor.
        A volunteer Curse Moderator. I write some AddOns too.

        https://www.youtube.com/user/myrroddin

        Comment


          #5
          The way to get the most accurate stat weight strings is by combining PAWN with SimC (Simulation Craft). Never use weight stats that are pre-determined as they'll not be a true reflection of your gear.

          Here's a quick tutorial on how to use SimC with PAWN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPvjkW0ZkxM

          Comment

          Working...
          X