Suggestion for Talent Guide, Rotation for each build

[sarge714]

This is such a great update!

I’d like to make a suggestion to make it easier for the newer players. When I first started WoW my son and his friends give me all the wrong directions on what to do. So initially it was pretty tough trying to get up to speed and survive in WoW.

The Talent guide is a great aid for new players. I’d like to recommend adding to the Talent guide what the current rotation should be to match the current talent build. And have the rotation evolve along with the talent spec. In addition, macros to match the rotation would also be helpful too. Maybe a special Zygor button for the Macro?

Thanks again for such a super product!!! Keep up the great work.

[cabby]

While this is a nice suggestion, this might be a bit hard to do as rotations can be very situational at times. There are some addons out there that attempt to provide rotation guidance for some various classes that you might find fit the bill.

[LadOkapi]

For all you Warlocks out there with friends to impress, rotation's easy to do, just follow these steps:

1: Toss up Immolate.
2: Cast CB and Conflag.*
3: Spam Immolate.

And that's the way I do it, it's my warlock rotation.
*This is assuming you're deep enough into your talents to get to them.

Cookie to the first person to notice what that's modeled after.

Anyways, that's basically the same spec my Warlock uses in raids, minus curses and the occasional IC spell when moving, but that's all conditional based on the fight (and tbh most fights in leveling don't last long enough to warrant a curse if you're deep enough into destro to get conflag and CB). It works well for my dailies at 80, so I think it'd work well for leveling too, using your voidwalker as a tank...

[dizzygamera]

And raid rotations and anything level 80 are completely beyond the scope of what Zygor's is intended for - LEVELLING!

A levelling spec is meant to maximise damage while minimising downtime, you probably won't have the time or cash for hunting mats for enchants or anything like that. Your mana (for such characters as use it) is a most valuable resource, and you want the maximum bang for minimum expenditure.

For example, a levelling mage would shield, spam frostbolt, the occasional frost nova when the enemy is close and if the shield is down, a water elemental comes in at higher levels and...that's it. A very simple rotation.

A raiding spec wouldn't use frost - it would use arcane, fire or frostfire. Frost does too little damage, but is is very mana efficient and has massive survivabilty in solo PvE, even with no +stamina. Concentrate on +spellpower, spirit, intellect in that order for levelling a mage (and probably a priest as well, I haven't done one of those yet).

Rotations can be very useful, but you will have to change them depending on your level, spec and equipment. Somebody with BoA gear will use a different rotation than sombody without. Or they damn well should be.

If you really want rotations, there are any number of levelling specs available, just ignore Zygor's (which isn't perfect, at least for me) and google some of the others.

[LadOkapi]

And raid rotations and anything level 80 are completely beyond the scope of what Zygor's is intended for - LEVELLING!

Not exactly. The generally accepted deep fire destro lock build is VERY mana efficient, which makes it perfect for leveling. The only downside to the build is that it won't be towards the end that you'd get Conflag and CB. It might not do as much damage as the demonology build Zygor used to suggest when I leveled, but that build also had a bit of downtime, which meant drinking water and stuff, which meant spending money. With my raiding build, which is the same build I use on my lock to do dailies, I can mow through quite a few mobs before I need to life tap back up. It's all preference though. If you want to level in Demonology, I won't stop you, but it's not my preference.

[bear2123]

I agree, if you can recommend a build you can recommend a spell rotation per 5 levels or so. maybe one for a single mob, and one for multipule mobs/adds.

[cabby]

While I can appreciate people wanting to have it even easier to play by being told what spell rotations to use, I personally can't condone this. This type of thing only leads to people not knowing how to play their class and not understanding the spells they have at their disposal. If Zygor tells you to cast X, Y, and Z and it works for you then you'll never bother to question why they work well together or if there's something else that could be cast to improve or even replace one of the spells. There are already too many people playing that bought their level 80 toons and have no idea how to play the class, let's not add to this problem even more.

Again, this is only my opinion on the whole idea.

[sarge714]

I disagree.

We don’t send kids to school without teachers and say learn on your own. We have teachers there to help guide them through the learning process. When they graduate, they come up with their own solutions based on what they learned.

I can’t think of a better way to teach people rotations and macro’s. It shows players how to change your rotations as you level with your talents as they change. Having a “expert” show you one way is a good thing and gives you knowledge to ask questions. There are a lot of new players that don’t learn about rotations or macros before they level up high or just quit WoW because of frustration.

As a still learning player its hard to understand the why of the talent guide suggestions with out the rotation for how to use them.

[bernwitt]

I disagree.

We don’t send kids to school without teachers and say learn on your own. We have teachers there to help guide them through the learning process. When they graduate, they come up with their own solutions based on what they learned.

I can’t think of a better way to teach people rotations and macro’s. It shows players how to change your rotations as you level with your talents as they change. Having a “expert” show you one way is a good thing and gives you knowledge to ask questions. There are a lot of new players that don’t learn about rotations or macros before they level up high or just quit WoW because of frustration.

As a still learning player its hard to understand the why of the talent guide suggestions with out the rotation for how to use them.

I agree (with Sarge714)..I am a very new player to WoW and enjoy going off on my own to learn my skills and quest, also have joined a great small guild that is active with one another to enjoy the group activities if I so choose that. WoW is very confusing to the beginner, in many ways...these rotations and macros..are best learned from the pros..they are intregal to your game play..and I would rather learn from them (the right way) and get a good understanding of them, so I can evolve to my own preferences later on. You do learn them, by default of seeing what is suggested and how they work together.
I started a couple of characters to get a feel for them. I bought Zygor guide with 2 characters level 17ish and 25ish..its difficult to use their talent point guide when what I've already set points on the ones they DON'T suggest. I've started a new character that goes strictly with the guide for now..to see how that goes (it's going well btw)..XD
Just my thoughts as a very new player.....XD

[antacus]

well, once again I have an opinion ... then again who does not I had access to an account with three level 80 toons for a little over a month so I'll chime in with what I noticed.

I have never had a level 80 toon, the highest I have is a 59 lock and a 70 DK. Anyway, the account had a lvl 80 mage and a lvl 80 druid both with tons of purple/epic items, BoA ... you name it. Because I never played a high level caster I did not know what I was doing and was awful at playing those chars. Sure, sooner or later I would have figured it out but the RL friend's priest was doing more dmg (recount) then the lvl 80 mage was. I expected more healing then the druid but more dmg then the mage? That goes to show what happens if you don't know how to play your toon. So, now I am leveling up a mage from scratch and made it to 58 so far. While I still do NOT claim to be an expert I do understand the class a lot better having played and experimented with spells and rotations.

So, to Cabby's point .. if you give people a crutch (defined rotation order) some may stick to that and go through the guide never experimenting with what the class can do. In the end people like that will not know how to do anything but click a defined order. Heaven forgive us if they have to think outside the box... I been there with that lvl 80 mage

Sarge714, on the other hand, also has a good point that getting people started with sample rotations gets them going down the right road. I for one like it when someone says "ohh, you need to start ..." since that at least gives pointers as to what I need to look at.

Personally I do not think there is a good solution for this for Zygor. Adding rotations could be a good thing but then again look at the talent builds. They added in a talent advisor and people chimed in with "why pick that talent and not this talent?" So then Zygor added in the ability for us to build our own talent trees to follow. Well if you are going to follow your own talent tree do you really need to write it down in the advisor?

The same thing could very easily happen to a "Rotation Advisor" within the Zygor Guide. Both sides hold water so maybe the end solution is for us to let Zygor focus on the guide itself working out bugs and streamlining it, adding things like a daily quest guide understanding we can use Google to find rotations and information for our classes

[cabby]

Very well written Antacus.

[bear2123]

You are all missing the point of requesting the casting rotations. This guide is suppose to be "THE FASTEST LEVELING GUIDE IN THE WORLD".
Not "here's some suggestions, now go spend time experimenting and wasting time".
If you want to screw around testing different rotations, go log in your little sisters account, she already made it to 80 because she used Zygor's Guide and a casting rotation.
My suggestion: Zygor and Staff:
Go look at http://www.wow-pro.com/class_guides/
Update them and add them to your guide. Id gladly pay you another 10 bucks to add it to the guide.

[sonalita]

"For example, a levelling mage would shield, spam frostbolt, the occasional frost nova when the enemy is close and if the shield is down, a water elemental comes in at higher levels and...that's it. A very simple rotation."

Well no, a frost mage would mount up and round up many mobs (at least 4, the more the better), nova, blink, blizzard spam and if mobs still alive when they reach (unlikely) - iceblock and repeat from nova.

Frost mages level insanely fast with aoe rotations. Rarely did I single target mobs when I levelled my mage once i got my mount and the relevant spells/talents (improved blizzard is key) - unless it was a quest to kill a named target.