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25 Man Raids

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    #1

    25 Man Raids

    WOW. That is about the best way to describe it.

    This past weekend I tried my first 25 man raid with my guild. We did ToC normal, I would hate to see heroic, and failed three times. I really think it was due to the way this was a "noobie raid" and if I was to guess 10 of the 25, myself included, had never run ToC or a 25 man before. Each of the three runs I got a little better ... the first run I died in 10 seconds, stupid mistake, and the second run I lasted until the start of the second fight. 3rd try I made it to end of the second boss.

    I did have some learning experiences:
    1) As a lvl 80 mage with 1575 SP I pull very low DPS (sad but true)
    2) I should have tried a 10 man raid before hoping right into 25 man
    3) Even with a quad core, 4gig memory, SATA drives, 9800GTX+ video card a busy 25 man raid drops FPS down to 18-20
    4) Having a forgiving guild teach how do to these is a MUST
    5) Being a crappy DPS mage I got a few pity 5 man heroic runs for equipment (1900 SP now)
    6) It was a blast and I want to try again!!!
    Cairne Realm
    Main: 100 Human Prot Pally
    Alt#1: 100 Tauren Resto Druid
    Alt#2: 60 Dwarf Beast Hunter
    Tags: None
    #2
    Do your guild a favor and research the fights before you go into them. You can find instructional videos on almost any raid in WoTLK at http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...-Video-Listing or just google the fight with the words "tankspot" after it

    To help your DPS, go to http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t30655-w...dium_3_3_live/ and read through it... it's a big read but well worth it. More specifically scroll down to the "DPS comparison for mages and other casters" section".

    You need not worry about your SP until you reach the hit cap. Once you have that, then you can dump all your enchants and gems into SP.

    Originally posted by antacus
    the first run I died in 10 seconds, stupid mistake,
    Lol stay out of the fire.

    The biggest difference between heroic mode and regular mode for the first set of bosses is everything hits harder (spells and physical) and there is NO downtime between the first set of bosses. The next boss comes out when the first one is at about 15%.
    I am CDO. This is a lot like OCD, except the letters are in alphabetical order... as they should be.

    Comment

      #3
      I been reading various places, EJ forums as well, and from what I gather I need a hit rating of 286 based upon my spec and what buffs come from my guildies. ATM I am 283 ... ohh so close.

      Since we had a short downtime between bosses it was normal mode. And yup ... it was the fire. I had a fleeting thought "as soon as this AB finishes I'll move." That thought left my mind when I died

      My arcane spec is spot on with what I found on EJ which differs ever so slightly on the level 1 basics from what rawr suggests. Looking at wow-heros and the top 5 mages, for my realm, all are arcane and all are the same spec which is slightly different then mine so I am going to re-spec to theirs. Right now I think my biggest weakness is gear score (little over 1,000 below the top 5 arcane mages) and rotation usage. I am still trying to optimize my rotation which EJ says is different between having the 2T10 mage buff or not. My experience via recount in 5-man heroics I can pull just over 2200 for a complete run... well except for the spider one where the end boss keeps burying himself messing up my rotation/buffs.
      Cairne Realm
      Main: 100 Human Prot Pally
      Alt#1: 100 Tauren Resto Druid
      Alt#2: 60 Dwarf Beast Hunter

      Comment

        #4
        Well it sounds like you have taken the initiative and done your homework... i'm impressed. Far to many people lack that these days.

        Only one thing i wouldn't stress to much about, is your gear score. You will have a FAR better ROI for having a proper itemization, spec, rotation, and gemming/enchant than you will for Gear Score. On most of my toons that i have 80, i pull more DPS than the players around me with "Higher" gear scores. There are lots of no0bs with epics these days.

        My DK puts out more dmg with a 4 set tier9 (ilvl 232) than he would if i got him the ilvl 245 shoulders from the badge vendor. This puts me at a lower gear score to keep the tier9, but i put out more dmg.

        Good work, bud.
        I am CDO. This is a lot like OCD, except the letters are in alphabetical order... as they should be.

        Comment

          #5
          I had to point out that for a caster class, like a mage, forget the DPS stats. Your goal is to get your damage done up.
          As a caster your hit points are low, but the damage you do will be high based on getting passed the armor your melee only class has to deal with.
          "The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas."

          Comment

            #6
            That is a good point I had not considered. I have been so wrapped around the axle on DPS that I did not think to check what total dmg done for the entire instance run is.
            Cairne Realm
            Main: 100 Human Prot Pally
            Alt#1: 100 Tauren Resto Druid
            Alt#2: 60 Dwarf Beast Hunter

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by antacus View Post
              That is a good point I had not considered. I have been so wrapped around the axle on DPS that I did not think to check what total dmg done for the entire instance run is.
              hehe yes Damage is always > than DPS. I often do not sit at the top of the DPS charts, but i usually am always on top of the dmg meters on boss fights. Which brings me to my next point. Don't be concerned with Dmg/DPS for overall dungeon. While this will reveal who has contributed more, the main importance is the dmg/dps for the boss fights. Some classes do far more AoE dmg than others, which is where they will be buffering their "real" single target dmg/dps.
              I am CDO. This is a lot like OCD, except the letters are in alphabetical order... as they should be.

              Comment

                #8
                I don't really care about gear score, as long as my Blizzard is knocking things down, and my Arcane Blast -> Arcane Missles -> Arcane Barrage are quickly killing the bosses, I don't worry too much

                And I always Focus Magic on the Healer, better heals = longer tank life = me not dying and getting a crit bonus
                85s
                Skippyninja
                Oomatherman
                Judedaniels
                MissRuPaul
                Sumekomovani
                Pattymelt
                Shamwiches
                Twonewon
                Takakoinaba
                Cursesmcgee

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by antacus View Post
                  That is a good point I had not considered. I have been so wrapped around the axle on DPS that I did not think to check what total dmg done for the entire instance run is.
                  I use the addon "recount" and stay away from just the DPS only stats, and only use the damage done report. The DPS stats can be found on the damage done portion anyway.

                  No matter what the class is in your group you can see participation using damage done. I kicked a DK from a dungeon run last night who had 1/5 damage done and 1/3 DPS stats.
                  The reason I say this is I have been spoken to by people using DPS stats alone with my lock. When I post the damage done in party, and I am #1, they change their toon quickly. My spells dont 'hit' hard but they hurt like hell. LOL
                  "The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas."

                  Comment

                    #10
                    I have noticed that, usually I'm #4 in DPS, but at the end of instance recount is posted I'm #1 for overall damage... I've always wondered why... Thanks for the explanation!
                    85s
                    Skippyninja
                    Oomatherman
                    Judedaniels
                    MissRuPaul
                    Sumekomovani
                    Pattymelt
                    Shamwiches
                    Twonewon
                    Takakoinaba
                    Cursesmcgee

                    Comment

                      #11
                      well, I watched my "Damage" as well as DPS for a few 5-mans over the weekend. I saw twice where I was high (1st and 2nd) on damage but only 3rd or 4th on DPS. So I feel a little better.

                      Now I just need to get my damage to be 1st or 2nd all the time . Problem is too many level 80 toons are way better geared and have more practice then I do.
                      Cairne Realm
                      Main: 100 Human Prot Pally
                      Alt#1: 100 Tauren Resto Druid
                      Alt#2: 60 Dwarf Beast Hunter

                      Comment

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