Profession Guide News! Big Update - Lots of Fixes + New Features. :-)

[Meylon]

I have read all 120 of the replys to the subscription issue. If I was working and times were better I wouldnt mind going subscription if I was getting a bang for my buck. The problem now that I have is if Zygor went to subscription I wouldnt be able to pay for it. I am on Social Security which is a fix income. Perhaps $5.00 isnt much to you young ones but to someone on a fixed income it means less groceries or payments on other bills. I understand Zygor's problem and it is a true one, but it just means that I would have to opt out.

[fifogigo]

As to what motivation Zygor should have to update his stuff, that would be to get more customers and keep current customers happy. Switching to a subscription plan is risky because you can loose alot of customers with it depending on the situation, citing phone and cable as a comparison is not a good one because in this society phone is necessary, and cable can be equated to internet to most people (and without internet how useful is a guide for an internet game?) Also if I understand what I was reading it would be a very bad thing to change the terms on the pre-existing customers, I paid for the guides, if it gets changed to a you must pay monthly or else loose what you paid for, well...as far as i'm concerned that would be stealing from me. Which would make me very unhappy.

[cabby]

From what Zygor already said, the guides you already own will still be updated but without the subscription you wouldn't have access to any new guides or new stuff that covers future expansions. So if Blizzard releases another expansion next year and raises the level to 90 plus adds more races then you'd still only have what you currently have without the subscription (no 85-90 guides or guides for the new races).

[bjones9942]

From what Zygor already said, the guides you already own will still be updated but without the subscription you wouldn't have access to any new guides or new stuff that covers future expansions. So if Blizzard releases another expansion next year and raises the level to 90 plus adds more races then you'd still only have what you currently have without the subscription (no 85-90 guides or guides for the new races).

And that's the way it is atm, just that we have a one time fee to get the new content.

I honestly don't see where a subscription model would work for this type of product. Are there features that I'm not seeing that are useful after leveling your toon? Dailies guides are good until you've run the dailies a few times. And the event guides always come out a full day after the event starts, and wowhead has usually had their run suggestions up earlier. So, after leveling & getting your dailies down ... ??? Don't get me wrong - I love the product. I just don't see the benefit of having a 'subscription' after you've leveled your toon(s) and figured out which dailies you're going to run. Same thing goes for the professions guides - once you've hit the max cap, why would you need a subscription to a guide that tells you how to max the profession out? I know I must be missing something here.

The only way I see this as generating enough income for Zygor would be to make the subscription either semi-annual or annual. If that's the case, I know it won't be cost effective for me - just leisurely leveling a couple of alts. I don't even know if I'd do a lengthy subscription for a 5 level expansion. I say that because most subscriptions auto-renew, and I know how easy it is to forget to cancel the renewal once you won't need it (which would be within 2 weeks of the expansion).

[goins2754]

I do not support this subscription plan.

I've seen a few arguments in this thread:

The income is more stable. This is a money management issue. If, as you claim, the $60 is comparable to the monthly subscription, then you would actually do better to get the $60 up front then manage it properly than to get $5/mo for a year. The first option earns interest in your bank, the second earns interest in mine.

This will allow users access to all of the guides. This is great for some, but personally worthless for me. I've paid for the guides I've used and would only want to pay for future guides that I will use. I don't need to pay for dailies, Horde, professions, etc even if that cost is rolled into a monthly subscription at a discount. Money is money, and forcing me to lease stuff I don't need in order to lease the one thing I do need is not fan friendly.

One argument is you'll be more motivated to put out guide updates and fixes. I don't buy this. If you charge $20 to buy an update (say, level 85-90) that's the same as the motivation of $5/mo for four months. The only difference is you lose the interest on that amount, but I lose more money because I'm being forced to lease guides I don't need.

The only valid argument I see is free updates for as long as my subscription runs. But here's the thing: Zygor is amazing at what it does. I fly through leveling! There are options where I don't even see the quest text box. That great for powerleveling an alt, not great for experiencing new content. So if my options are to enjoy the 1-85 free that I already paid for, but have to 'learn' five levels of new content vs a $5/mo subscription, then I'll not pay the subscription.

Overall, I will not be taking part of this subscription option. What strikes me as odd is the sales tactic of 'you're saving money overall.' If that's so, why are you so reluctant to not allow full purchases? Zygor makes more money and more people are happy!

It's been a great run thus far, Zygor. I love your guide. But another subscription/microtransaction service is where my dollar stops.

[alz2011]

A Done Deal

I do not support this subscription plan.
Moreover, from reading the whole of this thread it would seem the majority of users do not want it. However, it is already a done deal they will take no notice of current users.
The plans are already set up and ready to roll. Take a look from earlier in the thread.

Out of interest, what is stopping people just paying $5 whenever a large update is released? That sounds hugely cost effective for buyers.

We are implementing a solution that will not allow you to do that.

This is not a company thinking about introducing subscription. It is a company that will be imposing a subscription.
Well thanks but no thanks.

[cabby]

While I'm personally not taking sides on subscription or no subscription (it's Zygor's choice what he does) I just want to point out that all of the people that posted in this thread for either side is a very small percentage of the total Zygor customer base.

I'd also like to point out that in most forums people who don't have any problems with anything tend to make fewer posts so those who do complain about something will generally look to be the majority even if they happen to be the minority. I'm not saying this is the actual case here as I don't have real numbers to make the call on that, just pointing out what I've seen over many years of dealing with forums.

[Kamchak]

Strictly coming from a consumer and not a moderator, I was against the idea of switching to a sub system for the company. I have read most of the comments in this thread (that were more than just complaining for the sake of complaining), and have come to a solution, largely with the post from Cabby breaking the guides purchases verses the sub system.
Fact is, I own every guide Zygor has put out. Fact is, Zygor is putting out a lot more content that would indeed require me to come up with a large sum of money per guide release at one time. Fact is, a sub based system will provide for me, a customer like yourselves, a chance to manage my funds while still getting the product(s) that have become very valuable to me as a WoW player.
Want to see how much the guides have changed your gameplay? Start a new toon and level without it. I tried it, just for the heck of it. While I have most of the stuff memorized, or can recall the quest objectives easily, it is still much different.
I think that being able to have an automated payment system in place (not hard to arrange for you, John) will allow me to just budget in the $$ each month. Further, with a sub system in place, more assistance to the guides will come in the form of another capable body working on updates and fixes, things we have all seen become a major problem to not only John et al, but to us as users.
Ill close with this thought; there has never been a time where John aka Zygor was ever anything but fair to us as customers while trying to keep his business afloat. The money being kicked around for a sub system would be on average the same as what we pay for the guides already. If you dont want new guides it has been said by John that you will not be required to join in on the sub system, yet still get your updates.
In all, I think this is a fair and solid plan idea, and support it 100%.

[dudedafool]

I guess this will be my last post. This is a ramble with no TL;DR. And you may call it a "QQ Post" if you want.

Zygor, or crew, what exactly will we be receiving with our monthly sub?
So far these last few months all we've been updating are bugs in your guide with the occasional dropping/adding of a few quests?

Are paying a monthly sub for bug fixes? Something you messed up on your end?
If that is the case, what happens to our "Free updates for life"?

Bug fixes nor minuscule guide changes warrant a monthly sub.

I do not see Blizzard releasing content at a faster pace and highly doubt they will speed up their content releases.


All I see this sub payment helping is newer customers who would never have purchased your leveling guide in the first place. How is this helpful to your customers who currently own all your guides or even a bundle?

If anything, you're releasing 3 new guides, with professions being the only real beneficial one (You can argue Achieves, but that does not help you in game by any means, gold wise or skill leveling wise..)

So for these 3 new "Wonderful" guides I will be receiving, I get to pay a monthly sub. If you valued these guides at 20 dollars a pop now by your soon to be former standards, I would essentially pay them off in a year, if and ONLY if you set the sub fee to 5 dollars a month which people have been saying in their posts.
But who is to say it will be 5 bucks a month, I can honestly see you charging a 5-10 dollar a month sub, leaning more towards 10.
So now with that in mind, a newer customer can come in, pay the sub, and get FULL access to all your guides when I, and many others shelled out literally over 100 bucks. Not sure how it happened, but I got screwed by your bundle pack special offer, even when I asked you on FB before I purchased it if it would happen, and was told it was safe to purchase and get the discount.

So I got to pay roughly 130 bucks and on top of that I get to pay 5-10+ a month for bug fixes? Changing of quests? 3 small guides that you're releasing? That's all I'll be receiving? When others are getting more for their buck?
I can not help but feel this is a cash grab in it's finest form.
Also, having your employee (Or relative, I do not know if this is a family business or not) call your prices ridiculous for the guides we already paid for was VERY off putting and VERY bad form by your company.

Also, if anyone would like to counter my points, I'm more than willing to read them, I will not rage or call you dumb, I'm just honestly confused by this entire thing.
Also, if you do, I BEG you not to pull out the whole "You had your guide for an entire year before the new people will get their guides" It holds ZERO weight in anything, and, is honestly so blatantly stupid it makes me want to punch my screen.


I would also like to note to you Zygor, and everyone here, I LOVE your company, I also LOVE this community, never have I forumed with such generally nice people, who are very helpful and just pretty much overall... bad asses.
But, I also don't feel my love for both should warrant me pretty much getting screwed (Which is how others are feeling.)

So with that, I end my post, it was long, but, I'm sure I and many others would like answers. We've pretty much have been receiving the run-around.

-Alan.

[sharlyne]

I have to say they never really said it was going to be a subscription plan, never once have they actually said it., I know that most people automatically assumed it is. But there are other payment and business models they could be going with. Maybe they are going to give us all the guides for one low price instead of making us pay 60 for this package, 60 for this one and so forth! I mean yea, it is fine and dandy to say 'IF" like I said 'if they go to a subscription then I opt out" but where in this post do you see them actually confirm it is a subscription! That is the problem with everyone nowadays...always expecting the worst. Just sit bakc, enjoy what we got now and lets wait to find out what they will be doing! I think Zygor gets it, alot of us who have posted say we would opt out, you have some who say they wont. Zygor probably gets that and understands it. Now lets sit back and wait to find out what they are actually going to do for us!

[alz2011]

Shafted

I guess this will be my last post. This is a ramble with no TL;DR. And you may call it a "QQ Post" if you want.

Zygor, or crew, what exactly will we be receiving with our monthly sub?
So far these last few months all we've been updating are bugs in your guide with the occasional dropping/adding of a few quests?

Are paying a monthly sub for bug fixes? Something you messed up on your end?
If that is the case, what happens to our "Free updates for life"?

Bug fixes nor minuscule guide changes warrant a monthly sub.

I do not see Blizzard releasing content at a faster pace and highly doubt they will speed up their content releases.


All I see this sub payment helping is newer customers who would never have purchased your leveling guide in the first place. How is this helpful to your customers who currently own all your guides or even a bundle?

If anything, you're releasing 3 new guides, with professions being the only real beneficial one (You can argue Achieves, but that does not help you in game by any means, gold wise or skill leveling wise..)

So for these 3 new "Wonderful" guides I will be receiving, I get to pay a monthly sub. If you valued these guides at 20 dollars a pop now by your soon to be former standards, I would essentially pay them off in a year, if and ONLY if you set the sub fee to 5 dollars a month which people have been saying in their posts.
But who is to say it will be 5 bucks a month, I can honestly see you charging a 5-10 dollar a month sub, leaning more towards 10.
So now with that in mind, a newer customer can come in, pay the sub, and get FULL access to all your guides when I, and many others shelled out literally over 100 bucks. Not sure how it happened, but I got screwed by your bundle pack special offer, even when I asked you on FB before I purchased it if it would happen, and was told it was safe to purchase and get the discount.

So I got to pay roughly 130 bucks and on top of that I get to pay 5-10+ a month for bug fixes? Changing of quests? 3 small guides that you're releasing? That's all I'll be receiving? When others are getting more for their buck?
I can not help but feel this is a cash grab in it's finest form.
Also, having your employee (Or relative, I do not know if this is a family business or not) call your prices ridiculous for the guides we already paid for was VERY off putting and VERY bad form by your company.

Also, if anyone would like to counter my points, I'm more than willing to read them, I will not rage or call you dumb, I'm just honestly confused by this entire thing.
Also, if you do, I BEG you not to pull out the whole "You had your guide for an entire year before the new people will get their guides" It holds ZERO weight in anything, and, is honestly so blatantly stupid it makes me want to punch my screen.


I would also like to note to you Zygor, and everyone here, I LOVE your company, I also LOVE this community, never have I forumed with such generally nice people, who are very helpful and just pretty much overall... bad asses.
But, I also don't feel my love for both should warrant me pretty much getting screwed (Which is how others are feeling.)

So with that, I end my post, it was long, but, I'm sure I and many others would like answers. We've pretty much have been receiving the run-around.

-Alan.

Great post mate! You pretty much nailed this whole sorry deal.
Or to put it in a nutshell all of us that bought in to the original deal with Zygor are going to be shafted.
It sucks.
Alan

[sharlyne]

I will repeat what I said before. Zygor has yet to confirm if it iwill bre a subscription model or not, maybe it will not be subscription based.You guys are assuming and acting like it is, but in all reality noone really knows whether or not it will be subscription, it definitely seems that way but even zygor has not confirmed that rumor, yet....so we really dont know what is going on there, we should now sit back and wait to find out what zygor says it is, you might be shocked to find out maybe it has nothng to do with subscription, now I see the problem with everyone, everyone assumes the worst but we dont really know yet,m so instead of QQ about something we cant even prove yet, then just wait and see what zygor has planned for their new business model.

[toltec]

I will repeat what I said before. Zygor has yet to confirm if it iwill bre a subscription model or not, maybe it will not be subscription based.You guys are assuming and acting like it is, but in all reality noone really knows whether or not it will be subscription, it definitely seems that way but even zygor has not confirmed that rumor, yet....so we really dont know what is going on there, we should now sit back and wait to find out what zygor says it is, you might be shocked to find out maybe it has nothng to do with subscription, now I see the problem with everyone, everyone assumes the worst but we dont really know yet,m so instead of QQ about something we cant even prove yet, then just wait and see what zygor has planned for their new business model.

Then why, after 14 pages, hasn't he said everyone is way off the mark?

[fifogigo]

There aren't to many business models that you can use for purchasing.....unless you count taking out a loan to get something. And if that new guides require you to take out a loan all i'll say is man is that expensive.

[bjones9942]

I will repeat what I said before. Zygor has yet to confirm if it iwill bre a subscription model or not, maybe it will not be subscription based.You guys are assuming and acting like it is, but in all reality noone really knows whether or not it will be subscription, it definitely seems that way but even zygor has not confirmed that rumor, yet....so we really dont know what is going on there, we should now sit back and wait to find out what zygor says it is, you might be shocked to find out maybe it has nothng to do with subscription, now I see the problem with everyone, everyone assumes the worst but we dont really know yet,m so instead of QQ about something we cant even prove yet, then just wait and see what zygor has planned for their new business model.

You can say it all you want, but Zygor *DID* confirm a subscription model in post #18:

Sorry, but we disagree. We've been bending over backwards to try to figure out a way to make this fair to everyone. You'll have used our guides for an entire year by the time this change happens. You're only going to have to subscribe if you want *new* guides. How are we being unfair?

(Underline, bold & size added by me).

Sharlyne, You can use political tactics and try to revise reality by shouting something different over and over, but until Zygor edit's that post, a subscription model it will be.