After months of waiting, give us finally a piece of legion guides

[sschmidt]

Hey,

i mean we are waiting now a few months, thoose of us who already have legion beta access. But we pay on a monthly sub and we still dont have a guide from you jet. The worst thing of all is that you dont have even like parts to present. Dont get me wrong, i dont expect a full working guide for all that exists in Legion. But i mean we are practically your no cost beta tester and are practically beggin for anything than "nothing" ... you could even open up a new subforum to collect feedback, because more eyes can see and test more.

I dont really think the way to go is, to wait until the release day, then find out, oh we have a problem here that breaks everything, because look at that, it wasnt tested enough.

Sorry but i cant really so no reason at all, why you would go this way, with a so supportive community, which even "PAYS" you for this. I dont think you can ask for more here guys ...

Get your gears moving and release like a beta module part on the elite subs or so, but dont nothing except tell us, "yeah, maybe it will work on release ". Thats the equivalent to assume that pigs could fly, if they would.

Regards,
sschmidt

[Cartman]

First of all you are paying for the guides for the current WoW content and that's still WoD.

I can understand that you like to have a guide for the Legion beta but I can also understand the decision to not do public testing of new guides.
The Legion guides are probably still work in progress but nowadays people think beta versions are the same as demo versions and would not report issues in a way that it helps the developers but rather only play and complain about things not working.

In the Legion beta you should have encountered that behaviour in the ingame chat a lot. I was in every Beta from WotLK until WoD and the behaviour of the testers was getting worse and worse. In WoD people even complained about not being able to use their beta characters after WoD went live.
Even Blizzard gave up using the betas for testing. In WotLK there was an ingame bug report tool and for every quest you were able to rate the quest and rewards. But I assume less than 1% of the beta testers even used these tools.

You may be one of the few people who understand what a beta test is but the question is: are there more people able to test a product out here than the Zygor team has internal testers?

[sschmidt]

First of all you are paying for the guides for the current WoW content and that's still WoD.

I would say here can you pro and con on this term, but i respect your answer, so i wont say anything about that.

I can understand that you like to have a guide for the Legion beta but I can also understand the decision to not do public testing of new guides. The Legion guides are probably still work in progress but nowadays people think beta versions are the same as demo versions and would not report issues in a way that it helps the developers but rather only play and complain about things not working.

Cant begin to say whats all wrong, refering to my person, with that statement. First of all you dont know me, but you expect that i am a horrible person, like someone else you somewhere along the way get to know in your life, thats sad. Second of all, you know knothing about my qualifications, you dont know that im a software engineer since 1999, so im in my 18th year, you dont know that i work with SCRUM in the last 5 years in agile development and work hand in hand with our QA guys. 3rd i know exactly what an alpha, a beta, a release candidate, a final release and that stuff is, its called business experience. Just on a sidenote i joined the Towelliee guild "The Hammer Squad", because this guild is from blizzard reffered as "the guild" with the most helpful bugreports and tickets on the entire beta server, period!

In the Legion beta you should have encountered that behaviour in the ingame chat a lot. I was in every Beta from WotLK until WoD and the behaviour of the testers was getting worse and worse. In WoD people even complained about not being able to use their beta characters after WoD went live.

You always have this 1-15% ppl that always complain about either, the dont have access and do nothing with it, or have access and the dont like anything and starting to troll and bitch about the game because they are dont even grown up, thats why the chat filter has a spam reporting and the chat bans started on live! I tend to see the rest of the guys, which are doing the best they can to improve an awesome idea!

Even Blizzard gave up using the betas for testing. In WotLK there was an ingame bug report tool and for every quest you were able to rate the quest and rewards. But I assume less than 1% of the beta testers even used these tools.

I know that tool and it was awesome, you could alt+leftclick if i remember right everything and helped testing a lot! Just again on a sidenote, you state "Even Blizzard gave up using the betas for testing." thats a bold statement and if you dont have some serious insider knowlegde on Blizzard, with some pretty solid facts, i wouldnt say something like that.

You may be one of the few people who understand what a beta test is but the question is: are there more people able to test a product out here than the Zygor team has internal testers?

I think the question itself is so wide stated that i would imagine really "nobody" can answer this, because no one can backup the facts.

But again, as i said in my first post "Sorry but i cant really so no reason at all, why you would go this way, with a so supportive community" that wasnt for show, i mean every word of that! Imagine 48 eyes are more than 12, and when 12 eyes are more (or much more) schooled than the other 36 eyes, you will have more insight on certain things and more oversight on the other things. Dont forget you will have "fresh pairs of eyes" which dont do that all day and dont try to miss, but i can happen everywhere, its called tunnel vision! So wouldnt dare to say, we as a community are "better" then your guys, because thats just ridiculous to compare that and argue about that, because you dont know us as a community!

I really took my time to answer your questions, i really hope that helps and give you some insight on maybe our end too. I just dont wanted to be a flame post, i want to change something in the right direction and make it better for all of us!

Update:
If you really want to check back on quality of bugreports, let us just apply in a forum post and gain access to a private or invite only subforum for Betatesting. There you can control the quality of bug posts also you can really discuss certain misscommunitcations about a bug or so in a thread for itself.

Regards,
sschmidt

[ZG Support 1]

We did try this in the past with a previous expansion and it didn't work, so we have gone back to only releasing guides for the current live servers.

[sschmidt]

We did try this in the past with a previous expansion and it didn't work, so we have gone back to only releasing guides for the current live servers.

I respect that, is there a releasedate for an RC planed where we as a community could test it? (yes i wrote planed, not announced )

Again, trowing a hopefully functional product on launchday in the mix where everything changes, hotfixes go live and break other stuff, cant be your only release strategy, right?

Regards,
sschmidt

[ZG Support 1]

Right now the plan is (as indicated in my previous post) to only release guides for the live server content. This means the Legion guides will be available when Legion goes live. We do not know yet if there will be a version available for the few days head-start or if we will just wait until the expansion is officially launched for everyone. This is in the air still due to deployment concerns.

[Zygor Admin]

This is a great idea to submit the the User Feedback page: http://zygorguides.com/members/feedback

As has been stated though, we've only ever made guides for the live server content because beta guides DO NOT have the same quality that paying members expect from us. They are "works in progress" and generally have all sorts of issues both related to limited or quirky functionality of the beta itself, or because we're still making changes, adding guide routers, ect. I don't think it would be a very enjoyable experience for most.

[ozbones]

This is a great idea to submit the the User Feedback page: http://zygorguides.com/members/feedback

As has been stated though, we've only ever made guides for the live server content because beta guides DO NOT have the same quality that paying members expect from us.

As a paying member can we have a gold guide that works for current content thanks.

[ZG Support 1]

We will have the gold guide working again as quickly as we can.

[sschmidt]

This is a great idea to submit the the User Feedback page: http://zygorguides.com/members/feedback

Which part of my multiple "ideas" did you mean by that?
Im happy to send this in, but i need to know what part

[Cartman]

Cant begin to say whats all wrong, refering to my person, with that statement. First of all you dont know me

The part you were quoting was not directed towards you, as I wrote further down that you may be someone competent enough to test a guide and give proper feedback.

And I'm only a moderator here so everything I write is from my personal point of view, I cannot speak for the Zygor team.
But as Zygor Support wrote, there has been a test of a new guide viewer version and there was really few feedback here on the forums.

Just again on a sidenote, you state "Even Blizzard gave up using the betas for testing." thats a bold statement and if you dont have some serious insider knowlegde on Blizzard, with some pretty solid facts, i wouldnt say something like that.

Especially the WoD beta test showed that Blizzard apparently is only releasing the beta to give the people something to play around with, to keep the interest in the next expansion while no new content is released for the current expansion.
There have been so many bugs in the WoD beta that have been reported over and over for months and nothing was done to solve them. Just remember the garrison disaster with the crashing instance servers. That happened regularly at least 4 months prior to the WoD release.
So for me it looked like there was no connection between the players in the beta and the developers.

Imagine 48 eyes are more than 12, and when 12 eyes are more (or much more) schooled than the other 36 eyes, you will have more insight on certain things and more oversight on the other things.

Perhaps no one knows that better than me. I'm around here for years now not only moderating but also looking into the problems reported by the guide users and creating my own guides. I know how easy it is to overlook things and if someone else finds the problem you wonder why you did not see it yourself.

I really took my time to answer your questions, i really hope that helps and give you some insight on maybe our end too. I just dont wanted to be a flame post, i want to change something in the right direction and make it better for all of us!

Regarding the guide I'm also only a user so we are on the same side.
I did not see your post as a flame post, I got your good intention, I (and other moderators and forum users) offered the Zygor team our help at testing guides in the past.
But it's probably difficult to coordinate external and internal testing. I for example live in Germany so when I check the forums in the morning the Zygor team just went sleeping sleeping.
And I run my own business so I often don't have the time to constantly check the forums as I did in the past.

I think I can speak for the Zygor team when I say that good bug reports are really appreciated because then at least bugs in the live guides can be fixed faster.
When Legion goes live I will directly start leveling and report any guide related issue I stumble across.