Originally posted by SolarDawn
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Originally posted by matttt24 View PostIf the guides goes to subscription based only, im just going to remove it from my computer and not look back, give people the option to upgrade there current acount with one time payments as well i prefer that much more and i guarentee you will lose many customers which means you will charge more for the people that will pay i would rather spend an extra $60 per expansion than spend even $3 dollars a month if it ends up being $5 per month you essentially charge us twice for 1 guide
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The word 'Subscription' gave me a chill, but...
As much as the mention of a subscription service turned me off, I'll wait until all of the details have come out before making a decision. On the one hand, the service sounds pretty reasonable, but I guess that it will boil down to a case of 'how much it costs' vs. 'how often guides are updated'. Right now the only guides I really use are the in-game ones (the online ones are useless to me with the exception of the death knight and inscription ones, and they're only useful in specific cases).
I'd be willing to do something like $5 a month in the hope that the newer guides will be something I'd use. You guys update the existing guides pretty frequently and add in new content as it comes live in the game, so it isn't something I'd dismiss outright. I'm just wary of guide releases like a Dungeon Leveling guide that would have steps like "Level 15: Step 1 - Use the Dungeon finder to find a group for Deadmines." and "Step 2 - Pray it's a good group."
Whether I stick around or go after the announcement, your guides have helped me level more than a few characters to the cap, so you have my thanks.
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NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
If the guides goes to subscription based only, im just going to remove it from my computer and not look back, give people the option to upgrade there current acount with one time payments as well i prefer that much more and i guarentee you will lose many customers which means you will charge more for the people that will pay i would rather spend an extra $60 per expansion than spend even $3 dollars a month if it ends up being $5 per month you essentially charge us twice for 1 guide
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Zygor, if you were to force a charge for updates wouldn't you be breaking the terms offered when we all purchased?
"Free Lifetime 1-85 In-Game Leveling Guide Updates... Think about it. World of Warcraft is an ever-changing game where something new is always being added, changed around, or tweaked. You're going to want a leveling guide that is quickly updated when changes, or additions, are made. Don't take the chance on those other guys who take months upon end to update their guides - if it even gets done at all! By securing your copy of our guides today, you'll receive 100% FREE lifetime updates, which are always available quickly after updates are made."
Many software businesses don't need to charge a subscription fee in order to "keep the doors open" key make new products and get new subscribers. If this is difficult I would suggest removing the incentive that all updates are free and start charging for major version updates or something along those lines.
All that being said, I don't really care about a sub fee if I'm getting something above and beyond the standard updates.
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I would like to thank you VERY much for clearing it up for me, ZS2. I'm sure I wasn't the only one concerned with my questions.
Obviously the major selling point to me will be what will happen if I'm not able to afford this "small" fee and what will happen with my guides.
*I wrote a whole paragraph here that argued some points and brought up many points. I decided to let it go out of respect for your company the people who keep this site running. So I guess I will just drop it, so I don't come off as a nagger, complainer, or just an overall "Whiner" as Dulak likes to put it.*
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I think a subscription model is ok, price will be the key factor though. I am not willing to pay over $5 a month personally and that is just me. The great thing about a subscription model is it can attract many new users and as you get more and more that $5 a month becomes more and more valuable. The thing is though, you would need to start out low and then increase the price later for new customers rather than the other way around if you want to provide great value to your already loyal customers.
And the pricing structure isn't necessarily the challenge if Zygor is having troubles keeping it's doors open, it is the marketing. I think the biggest challenge is because WoW is losing players left and right so the number of potential customers is also shrinking. It is unfortunate that we the loyal customers would have to suffer with increased price because of that.
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Originally posted by helmandria View PostI think it's a little unfair too, because if I understand correctly how the guides work, once a new x-pac comes out, even though I would still have access to the old guides, I would have to subscribe and basically pay again for what I've already bought with regard to levels 1-85.
How a subscription model, or something like it, would work is you would pay one low monthly fee and everything you have would be upgraded for the expansion, oh...and you would also instantly get every product you don't already own PLUS everything we ever make. If you decide not to hop on a subscription, that's ok too, your guides will remain available and usable up to the level range you purchased. Hope this clears things up.
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Originally posted by Zygor View PostSorry, but we disagree. We've been bending over backwards to try to figure out a way to make this fair to everyone. You'll have used our guides for an entire year by the time this change happens. You're only going to have to subscribe if you want *new* guides. How are we being unfair?
I think it's a little unfair too, because if I understand correctly how the guides work, once a new x-pac comes out, even though I would still have access to the old guides, I would have to subscribe and basically pay again for what I've already bought with regard to levels 1-85. I don't think the old guides I've bought will work with a new expansion without an update. If they did, I might be okay with this, or if there was some incentive for long-term customer. Otherwise, I'd have a hard time supporting this and paying more money.
My apologies if this has been said. I didnt' have time to read through all the posts.
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Originally posted by dudedafool View PostThis site is obviously going P2U (play to use) You other users can tell us to wait for a final verdict, but, with Zygor's demeanor (Very blizzard/Activision like, which is very disgusting and disappointing to read) and his wording you can tell it's coming.
My question, is what happens if I flat out refuse to pay? Am I no longer a member? Do I lose my forum account? Do I essentially lose my 130-150 dollar investment? What happens if I pay for say a month or two (Or whatever monthly, bi-tri-quad payment system you do) And decide it isn't worth my time to continue to invest? Are my older guides now unusable?
If we went subscription absolutely nothing would change in your situation. What you have already paid for is paid for and you never have to pay another cent again to keep what you have, subscription or no subscription. The idea is that when an expansion comes out, and all of your guides need updating, instead of paying $20-30 PER GUIDE PER FACTION for guide upgrades you would pay one low monthly fee and receive all upgrades, for every expansion, for life, PLUS gain access to every product you don't already have both factions, PLUS access to every product we ever make both factions.
As far as cancelling goes, we'll have to work out something so that if you cancel you will revert back to what you already paid for and just lose the new subscription based content. The full details will be released in the coming months that should cover any remaining issues.
When I could easily just save up for something I am interested in and pay for it, flat out?
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If it were to become a subscription service I'd want a lot more guides that I can use at level 85. The profession, achievement and mount guides on the way do that but I'd want more after that. On top of that, I don't want to be paying another clump of money every expansion for an update. If I'm paying for a subscription service I'd expect everything with current guides I have to be updated free of charge. For instance: If I were to be paying a subscription and in the next expansion they make the level cap 90, I don't expect to pay for the 85-90 part of the guide - I'd expect it to come free.
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Originally posted by dulak View PostAlso, you don't know any of the people who are in charge of your car insurance, cable/sat bills or even your cell phone providers, yet you pay their bills.
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I would not pay a sub fee, even with price not being an issue, I just believe that unless you are using it every day you play, there is no reason to pay for something that I will use once every couple of weeks.
- The dailies guides have no utility after some runs. I not liked (at all) the Firelands one tbh.
- The holiday guides are somewhat fun, but I would not pay a subscription for that
- I only use the leveling guides when I level a char. I already have enough 85 to bother leveling any new one. Of course, Zygor Guides made it a lot easier.
- I have NO USE for Alliance guides / Profession guides.
As I see, the model would make me pay for a lot of stuff that I don't need / use.
The only option is that if it is "super cheap" (like US$ 2 or less) . Even so, I confess that I would not be paying subscription today (and for at least 2 months), because I actually not use the guides at all.
Probably when the next FULL expansion arrives I pay for like 3 months (sufficient for the product to become stable) and then stop paying. I will not need to pay subscription fee for things like "Firelands Dailies" or other minor stuff like that.
So, for me, is a good thing. I will get all guides for 3 months subscription price. Probably will be really cheap
I really hope that this new model woks for you. For me, it feels stupid to pay monthly fees for very minor things. Unless the price of it is insanely low that I just does not care.
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I guess I will try posting this in a different way since last time it was overlooked/maybe not read correctly.
This site is obviously going P2U (play to use) You other users can tell us to wait for a final verdict, but, with Zygor's demeanor (Very blizzard/Activision like, which is very disgusting and disappointing to read) and his wording you can tell it's coming.
My question, is what happens if I flat out refuse to pay? Am I no longer a member? Do I lose my forum account? Do I essentially lose my 130-150 dollar investment? What happens if I pay for say a month or two (Or whatever monthly, bi-tri-quad payment system you do) And decide it isn't worth my time to continue to invest? Are my older guides now unusable?
I'm not sure how your buyer agreement reads, but, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was something like Blizzards in the fact that I "don't own the guide and am only leasing it from you." Not saying it is, but, I wouldn't be surprised.
Dulak, I tend to agree with you on most of your rambling posts with your whole "Lets unite for Zygor, yay!" posts, but that came off as very shallow. I'm sure a certain amount of people here are struggling with their daily lives and bills. Why are they/we the whiners? Why must we be forced to pay monthly for something that is merely a convenience?
When I could easily just save up for something I am interested in and pay for it, flat out?
I love your company and the work you do for us Zygor and crew, I've recommended at-least 5 friends who have purchased the guide, and, honestly I guess... I would pay for this sub system. This just really upsets me that this is the way your company is heading. I have a feeling this is going to lead to so many extra unlockable content that I will need to fork even more money over to pay for.
-Alan.
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If it goes to sub, I'm sure it would cover ALL of the guides they've released and will release. In turn, making it a bit easier for everyone to get all the guides at once and cheaper in the long run. I'm sure it'd also make getting updates and fixes a bit quicker as well.
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