Dungeon Finder vs Guide

[starfalsh]

I need to get 80 fast but my friend swears that the new Dungeon finder spamming dungeons as a healer will be quicker than usinbg guide

Thoughts?

[cabby]

By using the guide you know your own capabilities and are able to adjust your killing to match those capabilities, by using the dungeon finder you're at the mercy of whoever happens to be sitting at the keyboard of the other toons. Personally I prefer to know my limitations and work with them instead of putting my leveling time into the hands of some unknown person and possibly do nothing but constantly dieing in a dungeon.

[sonalita]

Agree with Cabby - levelling via instances is fast if you have a good group who know what they are doing. A levelling guild would be the way to go for that.

[boswellnimrod]

I do both. The dungeons using the finder get too repetitive. and at certain times of the day, the finder is quite slow. If you were specifically going that route, get some other level 80s to power level through.

[dizzygamera]

Got to say for sheer levelling speed using the DF beats out Zygor's. Especially if you spec as a tank or a healer. Previous to this you could not level as a healer. It just wasn't possible. Starting from low levels it will also set you up in good stead for when you hit 80 in terms of both gear and ability to run heroics and raids.
What we really need now is a guide that runs us through where to pick up the quests for each dungeon. Just to speed up the xp gain and give us even better gear.
Of course, once I hit Northrend I just run through Zygor's until the DF finds me a group. This gives a nice steady flow of cash, especially when you hit 80 and get cash rather than xp.
Just respecced my mage to arcane and ran TotC (normal) a couple of times, got myself a trinket, bracers and belt. Numbers are starting to come up fast, big and yellow. I love it!
Can't wait to see how high they go when I actually get round to putting some enchants and gems on my gear.

[antacus]

I have been doing the same thing ... kind of. I hit 70 and put the guide on hold. I spend my time mining and leveling my JC up while the DF looks for places for me to go. Doing just that I am almost level 71 now and have not killed a thing outside of the BG and LFG features ... well the stupid low level mobs that attack me when I mine are wiped out but those don't count.

Overall I am planning on working through the guide once I have my JC up high nuff that I get some buffs.

I am still speced frost with a fire dual talent. I need to re-do the fire and read good things about arcane ... what numbers you put out with blue/green equipment?

[dizzygamera]

While the guide I hit 80 in Zul'drak (lvl 76 in the guide). Frost spec at that point was putting out about 1.3k dps, critting frostbolt about 4.5k a time.
Upgraded to a titansteel spellblade (dagger) and titanium spellshock (ring) from the AH when I went to dual spec with arcane. Only enchant was on legs as it's cheap for a tailor.
First DF gave me TotC(normal) and I was putting out arcane blast crits in the 5 figure range, recount gave dps approaching 4k. That's with mainly blues/greens with next to no enchants and no gems.

With those numbers, I'm doing random heroics now and getting myself some emblems.

[antacus]

Dang!

Last night I hit 71 and my frost spec does crits right around 3k but recount gave my avg as 996 for an entire run through Utgarde Keep ... which was closer to 1,100 until we started wiping but that is another story

OK, so tonight I am going to spend the gold and wipe out my fire tree and go for arcane. You have a link for your build I can check out dizzygamera?

[dizzygamera]

Sorry 'bout the wait, been off for a few days with family.

Arcane spec at 80 should look something like this

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#of0Vf...dcZbhcbo:zNi0o

Just got 'Superior' achievement (woohoo!) and managed my first 20k crit (blew all cooldowns and procs to do it, but SO WORTH IT!)

Average dps not so hot as generally can't manage a full spell rotation before a mob dies, but when you see a crowd of non-elites (icy veins, arcane power, trinket, blizzard) you really see the numbers skyrocket. And when you come across a boss...

...well, see that nice number posted above.


And now some advice on dungeons...

Watch out for PUGs that really don't have a clue what they're doing. Inspect any members when you start. Especially the tank. If you see a tank without a shield, leave. If the tank is a death knight, make sure they're specced *frost* (the sole exception to the shield thing, well, that and dire bear druids), if specced blood or unholy - leave. Paladins and warriors should be protection spec. Druids should be feral. Anything else, they're not a tank, they're dps. Unless you have a proper tank, leave the group. Had some bad wipes because the tank could not hold aggro, and with the dps an arcane mage can put out, aggro needs to be held. Died a lot due to not being healed for random/AoE damage, but to me, the primary cause of instance failure is lack of a tanking tank.

Don't be afraid to pop invisibility if the group is going to wipe either. No point in you dying as well.

Remember, in a group a tank's sole purpose is to hold aggro. Tanks do not heal. Tanks do not do damage, except to generate threat. Tanks TAKE damage so make sure they survive it. Check their spec and gear is suitable for threat generation/damage mitigation. Buff them appropriately.

Healers do not do damage. Healers do not pull mobs. Leave pulling to the tank. Healers should concentrate on keeping the tank alive, anyone else is a bonus. It is, however, much appreciated for AoE/random damage. They can save your butt only if they have mana, so any buffs should reflect this.

DPS classes do DAMAGE. They do not heal. They do not pull. See which mob the tank is actively engaging and start blasting. If you take aggro, stop dealing damage and run to the tank. DO NOT RUN AWAY! DO NOT CONTINUE DEALING DAMAGE! Unless, of course, you can kill the mob before he reaches you

[Kamchak]

Good post Dizzy. Your experience is appreciated. To many elitists that figure they are no longer noobs, so no one else should be noobs.
I am blood spec DK and started working reg runs for gear. Got to say, I thought my after % numbers would be better than they were. It was eye opening to see that I was not doing what I thought I should be doing in even a reg dungeon.
Gear DOES matter... but the ability to follow directions and work as a team is 100 times more valuable.

[antacus]

Thanks for the build dizzy! I'll try that tonight (should have time) and see what I can get done in a random. What is your normal spell rotation for that build? (I have never tried arcane so don't even know the spells ... going to be a learning experience)

I also have to agree about the groups. I have seen several in the randoms since 3.3 came out and it does take knowledge to get through. A group where everyone knows their role and how to do it works MUCH better then not. I had not inspected chars too much because I don't know what details to look for and the 15 minute cooldown hurts. Typically I play through to the 15 min mark and by 10 minutes I'll know if I am staying or not

I just learned the invis trick last night and saved my bacon a couple times already. It is amazing the number of people that don't know what they are doing ... but not saying I am an expert mind ya

[831c7b6c]

If the tank is a death knight, make sure they're specced *frost* (the sole exception to the shield thing, well, that and dire bear druids), if specced blood or unholy - leave.

That's just silly. Both Blood and Unholy are very viable tanking trees. In fact, Blood is usually better for single target tanking than Frost.

[Kamchak]

I ran with a pally for a while as a blood spec DK. No matter what I did, he always held aggro, including me using death and decay.

[831c7b6c]

I ran with a pally for a while as a blood spec DK. No matter what I did, he always held aggro, including me using death and decay.

Just a few hours ago I consistently stole aggro from a paladin and a warrior while in my dps blood spec, because it was late and I hit the wrong button and ended up in frost presence. Conclusion: anecdotes don't teach us anything.

I would, however, love to hear the theorycrafting behind blood and unholy being useless for tanking, because I can find no source that agrees with that. Neither wow.com, nor Elitist Jerks, nor any simulators.

[Kamchak]

Just a few hours ago I consistently stole aggro from a paladin and a warrior while in my dps blood spec, because it was late and I hit the wrong button and ended up in frost presence. Conclusion: anecdotes don't teach us anything.

I would, however, love to hear the theorycrafting behind blood and unholy being useless for tanking, because I can find no source that agrees with that. Neither wow.com, nor Elitist Jerks, nor any simulators.

Not a theory, no statistics given or suggested, but my own single experience working as a DK along with a Pally