Profession Guide News! Big Update - Lots of Fixes + New Features. :-)

[shadowdragoonftw]

Dulak, I'm fully aware of what you're saying. But the fact is, you have to go with what business plan works in the long run. You're not going to get people to sympathise. If the ZG crew decides the best thing for them is to change their payment model, then that's their choice. They also should go into it knowing they're going to lose patrons. That's just the way of the world. But convenience is just how it all works. Once ZG does something that's less convenient for the majority of their patrons, well, then they'll have to live with the consequences of that change. But I'm not going to go out of my way to push past a huge inconvenience for the sake of some people that I only vaguely know online. Telling us to pick Zygor over any other company that uses their guides as a primary income source is just stupid. Are you saying the ZG team's welfare is more important than any other guide company out there? That we should put ZG first and foremost... why?

[dulak]

No I'm not saying that. I'm also not rich. Matter of fact, I'm not telling you to pick anything. All I said was to keep in mind this is how they pay their bills. If you don't want do a subscription and go spend yet another 50-100 dollars on a less user friendly guide, be my guest. I honestly don't care. And before you decide to read to into that statement, I'm not telling you to. It's YOU'RE choice. Also, you don't know any of the people who are in charge of your car insurance, cable/sat bills or even your cell phone providers, yet you pay their bills. As to the whole rich statement, I'm by far not rich. I just don't see a point in people complaining over what MIGHT happen. The team has not released any further info as to what the change may be. Everyone is just assuming things and it's causing entirely too much dramatic crap that doesn't need to be here.

[stevaz]

So, my completely speculative opinion on the matter...

Blizz has stated that they are coming out with xpacs and content more frequently, I'm sure the subscription dip has scared them a little. That being said, a safe estimate would be a new xpac every 18 months or so - and new content patches on a more frequent basis.

I'd have to also assume that Zygor would be charging around $5/mo if the guides were to go to a subscription model, and I would also guess that the sub is for each and every guide that is ever going to be released...

So that gives us an estimate of $90 per xpac - not including new content patches with dailies, etc on a subscription model vs. $100+ dollars in one lump chunk every expansion.

I don't see the issue.

[dulak]

If it goes to sub, I'm sure it would cover ALL of the guides they've released and will release. In turn, making it a bit easier for everyone to get all the guides at once and cheaper in the long run. I'm sure it'd also make getting updates and fixes a bit quicker as well.

[dudedafool]

I guess I will try posting this in a different way since last time it was overlooked/maybe not read correctly.

This site is obviously going P2U (play to use) You other users can tell us to wait for a final verdict, but, with Zygor's demeanor (Very blizzard/Activision like, which is very disgusting and disappointing to read) and his wording you can tell it's coming.

My question, is what happens if I flat out refuse to pay? Am I no longer a member? Do I lose my forum account? Do I essentially lose my 130-150 dollar investment? What happens if I pay for say a month or two (Or whatever monthly, bi-tri-quad payment system you do) And decide it isn't worth my time to continue to invest? Are my older guides now unusable?

I'm not sure how your buyer agreement reads, but, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was something like Blizzards in the fact that I "don't own the guide and am only leasing it from you." Not saying it is, but, I wouldn't be surprised.

Dulak, I tend to agree with you on most of your rambling posts with your whole "Lets unite for Zygor, yay!" posts, but that came off as very shallow. I'm sure a certain amount of people here are struggling with their daily lives and bills. Why are they/we the whiners? Why must we be forced to pay monthly for something that is merely a convenience?
When I could easily just save up for something I am interested in and pay for it, flat out?

I love your company and the work you do for us Zygor and crew, I've recommended at-least 5 friends who have purchased the guide, and, honestly I guess... I would pay for this sub system. This just really upsets me that this is the way your company is heading. I have a feeling this is going to lead to so many extra unlockable content that I will need to fork even more money over to pay for.

-Alan.

[parildo]

I would not pay a sub fee, even with price not being an issue, I just believe that unless you are using it every day you play, there is no reason to pay for something that I will use once every couple of weeks.

Quoting this.

- The dailies guides have no utility after some runs. I not liked (at all) the Firelands one tbh.
- The holiday guides are somewhat fun, but I would not pay a subscription for that
- I only use the leveling guides when I level a char. I already have enough 85 to bother leveling any new one. Of course, Zygor Guides made it a lot easier.
- I have NO USE for Alliance guides / Profession guides.

As I see, the model would make me pay for a lot of stuff that I don't need / use.

The only option is that if it is "super cheap" (like US$ 2 or less) . Even so, I confess that I would not be paying subscription today (and for at least 2 months), because I actually not use the guides at all.

Probably when the next FULL expansion arrives I pay for like 3 months (sufficient for the product to become stable) and then stop paying. I will not need to pay subscription fee for things like "Firelands Dailies" or other minor stuff like that.

So, for me, is a good thing. I will get all guides for 3 months subscription price. Probably will be really cheap

I really hope that this new model woks for you. For me, it feels stupid to pay monthly fees for very minor things. Unless the price of it is insanely low that I just does not care.

[shadowdragoonftw]

Also, you don't know any of the people who are in charge of your car insurance, cable/sat bills or even your cell phone providers, yet you pay their bills.

See, here's the thing you're overlooking. Those are pretty much mandatory things. It's illegal to drive without car insurance, and cable tv/cell phones are pretty much a necessity in this day and age. (And largely, people don't have a choice in which of those they want. It's mandated by what's available in your area, usually just one or two choices.) A leveling guide for a game that I already pay money to play? I can level without the guide. The guide provides nothing but convenience. Convenience I'm willing to pay for when its benefits outweigh the cost. (I'm not talking monetary cost, here.) A monthly sub is just too inconvenient for me, so I'd be willing to do without the guide if it came to that. That's all I'm saying.

[Krayzee]

If it were to become a subscription service I'd want a lot more guides that I can use at level 85. The profession, achievement and mount guides on the way do that but I'd want more after that. On top of that, I don't want to be paying another clump of money every expansion for an update. If I'm paying for a subscription service I'd expect everything with current guides I have to be updated free of charge. For instance: If I were to be paying a subscription and in the next expansion they make the level cap 90, I don't expect to pay for the 85-90 part of the guide - I'd expect it to come free.

[Zygor Admin]

This site is obviously going P2U (play to use) You other users can tell us to wait for a final verdict, but, with Zygor's demeanor (Very blizzard/Activision like, which is very disgusting and disappointing to read) and his wording you can tell it's coming.

I'm not sure what was said that disappointed you so but I can assure you we're not trying to come off like some big corporation who doesn't care about their customers. A couple months ago a post was made by Zygor where he spoke to everyone very humbly and laid out the facts. If the business model doesn't change then Zygor Guides will have to shut down. The work load to income ratio is simply far too unbalanced so we were faced with trying something new or closing our doors. We decided to try something new and this actually led to one of the best ideas we've ever come up with that we feel will revolutionize the entire guide market. We're hoping customers will give us the opportunity to properly present this idea in the coming months and hold out judgment until then.

My question, is what happens if I flat out refuse to pay? Am I no longer a member? Do I lose my forum account? Do I essentially lose my 130-150 dollar investment? What happens if I pay for say a month or two (Or whatever monthly, bi-tri-quad payment system you do) And decide it isn't worth my time to continue to invest? Are my older guides now unusable?

A subscription model, or something like it, is definitely a possibility and we've done enough brainstorming that we can offer you at least an idea of how it might work. The very first thing is that if we cannot gain the support of customers in our endeavors then straight up Zygor Guides will be no more. This really isn't us coming to you saying "this is how it's gonna be, deal with it", it's more like "we have an idea of how to keep Zygor around and make it grow, but we need your support".

If we went subscription absolutely nothing would change in your situation. What you have already paid for is paid for and you never have to pay another cent again to keep what you have, subscription or no subscription. The idea is that when an expansion comes out, and all of your guides need updating, instead of paying $20-30 PER GUIDE PER FACTION for guide upgrades you would pay one low monthly fee and receive all upgrades, for every expansion, for life, PLUS gain access to every product you don't already have both factions, PLUS access to every product we ever make both factions.

As far as cancelling goes, we'll have to work out something so that if you cancel you will revert back to what you already paid for and just lose the new subscription based content. The full details will be released in the coming months that should cover any remaining issues.

When I could easily just save up for something I am interested in and pay for it, flat out?

We're actually surprised anyone would WANT to pay outrageous fees per guide per faction when they can have every guide type on the market for all factions updated for life with no future guide expansion fees dropped on them every couple years. We'd love to hear more from you and you thoughts on this. We like to think of Zygor as a community company. We don't have an us vs them mentality. Our business practice is to work directly with our customers so we can make the best product for them based on their needs.

[helmandria]

Sorry, but we disagree. We've been bending over backwards to try to figure out a way to make this fair to everyone. You'll have used our guides for an entire year by the time this change happens. You're only going to have to subscribe if you want *new* guides. How are we being unfair?

I think it's a little unfair too, because if I understand correctly how the guides work, once a new x-pac comes out, even though I would still have access to the old guides, I would have to subscribe and basically pay again for what I've already bought with regard to levels 1-85. I don't think the old guides I've bought will work with a new expansion without an update. If they did, I might be okay with this, or if there was some incentive for long-term customer. Otherwise, I'd have a hard time supporting this and paying more money.

My apologies if this has been said. I didnt' have time to read through all the posts.

[Zygor Admin]

I think it's a little unfair too, because if I understand correctly how the guides work, once a new x-pac comes out, even though I would still have access to the old guides, I would have to subscribe and basically pay again for what I've already bought with regard to levels 1-85.

Not really. In the past, when an expansion came out, your guides would be updated for the level range you paid for. So say you bought both 1-85 leveling guides. In the past we'd make sure the guides continued working for you, no extra charge, up to level 85. However, you had to pay an additional lump sum fee to get the content of the levels you hadn't paid for. This meant that you were expected to come up with a huge chunk of money every time an expansion came out. If you own all our current products that could be upwards of $60, and the more products we release the worse expansions will get when it comes to upgrades.

How a subscription model, or something like it, would work is you would pay one low monthly fee and everything you have would be upgraded for the expansion, oh...and you would also instantly get every product you don't already own PLUS everything we ever make. If you decide not to hop on a subscription, that's ok too, your guides will remain available and usable up to the level range you purchased. Hope this clears things up.

[merlik]

I think a subscription model is ok, price will be the key factor though. I am not willing to pay over $5 a month personally and that is just me. The great thing about a subscription model is it can attract many new users and as you get more and more that $5 a month becomes more and more valuable. The thing is though, you would need to start out low and then increase the price later for new customers rather than the other way around if you want to provide great value to your already loyal customers.

And the pricing structure isn't necessarily the challenge if Zygor is having troubles keeping it's doors open, it is the marketing. I think the biggest challenge is because WoW is losing players left and right so the number of potential customers is also shrinking. It is unfortunate that we the loyal customers would have to suffer with increased price because of that.

[dudedafool]

I would like to thank you VERY much for clearing it up for me, ZS2. I'm sure I wasn't the only one concerned with my questions.

Obviously the major selling point to me will be what will happen if I'm not able to afford this "small" fee and what will happen with my guides.


*I wrote a whole paragraph here that argued some points and brought up many points. I decided to let it go out of respect for your company the people who keep this site running. So I guess I will just drop it, so I don't come off as a nagger, complainer, or just an overall "Whiner" as Dulak likes to put it.*

[85da6cd1]

Zygor, if you were to force a charge for updates wouldn't you be breaking the terms offered when we all purchased?


"Free Lifetime 1-85 In-Game Leveling Guide Updates... Think about it. World of Warcraft is an ever-changing game where something new is always being added, changed around, or tweaked. You're going to want a leveling guide that is quickly updated when changes, or additions, are made. Don't take the chance on those other guys who take months upon end to update their guides - if it even gets done at all! By securing your copy of our guides today, you'll receive 100% FREE lifetime updates, which are always available quickly after updates are made."

Many software businesses don't need to charge a subscription fee in order to "keep the doors open" key make new products and get new subscribers. If this is difficult I would suggest removing the incentive that all updates are free and start charging for major version updates or something along those lines.

All that being said, I don't really care about a sub fee if I'm getting something above and beyond the standard updates.

[matttt24]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

If the guides goes to subscription based only, im just going to remove it from my computer and not look back, give people the option to upgrade there current acount with one time payments as well i prefer that much more and i guarentee you will lose many customers which means you will charge more for the people that will pay i would rather spend an extra $60 per expansion than spend even $3 dollars a month if it ends up being $5 per month you essentially charge us twice for 1 guide