Subscription Questions & Concerns Addressed

[Ingeke]

Thank you !

Hmm, alright well this has become abundantly clear that this is not working. In fact, it seems we were completely off base in thinking people would find the small subscription fee *more* affordable. It is the exact opposite, so we will likely be abandoning the subscription payment model completely for our guides and sticking to a one-time fee for each guide (and one-time fees for guide expansion Upgrades).

We're now figuring out the details, so look for an announcement later today that explains the solution and how everything will work, etc.

Thank you for your patience in the meantime.

Thank you Zygor for abandoning the subscription payment model and to stick to a one-time-fee for each guide !

[mindit]

Hmm, alright well this has become abundantly clear that this is not working. In fact, it seems we were completely off base in thinking people would find the small subscription fee *more* affordable. It is the exact opposite, so we will likely be abandoning the subscription payment model completely for our guides and sticking to a one-time fee for each guide (and one-time fees for guide expansion Upgrades).

We're now figuring out the details, so look for an announcement later today that explains the solution and how everything will work, etc.

Thank you for your patience in the meantime.

As an existing customer, I think it's only fair to be able to pay a one-time fee for a guide of choice, like it was always the case. You can still introduce the subscription model, so (new) customers have a choice in business model and not be forced into using only the subscription model. I think that most customers didn't like the fact that the option of buying was taken away.

Kind regards,

Tom

[dulak]

Zygor Edit:

Dulak, please refrain from insulting other members of our community. While we very much appreciate your support, we cannot have this animosity on our forums. Please choose your words more carefully from now on, as we will be deleting any future posts that are insulting. Thank you.

[ctkdjane1]

ARGH...I myself am not againts the whole sub idea all I wanted was the ability to purchase the guides outright if I wanted too. Zygors I think it could work just allow choice, I myself said having a sub would be a good idea at times. but I like choice if down the road I choose to want to buy the guides down the road.

I am sure if you allow people to buy the guides outright and also the opion of sub with a 1, 3, 6 month and maybe a year opoion this would settle alot of the issues. I posted a thread about my idea that could work as well. May not of been well put together but the idea is there.

[TheWiggin]

I have to say I'm more than a little disappointed. I own (or thought I did) the Leveling, Daily and Event guides for both Horde and Alliance, but now to get what is in reality a small handful of comparably minor additional guides I have to pay $8 per month for what could be a 3-5 year game life? So your asking me to sign up for an additional $300-500 (over time) PLUS whatever upgrade fees may be around the corner? I can easily say you've lost a customer if you don't reconsider this change.

IF you're going to maintain the subscription, you'll never have to pay 1 cent for the upgrades, they will come for free.

Putting together the info from all earlier posts to this thread, this pricing change is about matching the income structure (our payments) to the cost structure (maintaining the guides). Zygor (and team) are not getting independently wealthy... For a product like this, at least 90% of our money goes back into keeping the guide current and running. Any payment structure is ultimately about who pays to keep it going.

In the current structure there are winners (like me, I bought the 1-70 guide once 4 years ago, been using it free on a daily basis ever since) and losers (e.g. a person who bought it to level 1 toon from 75 to 85, used it for a couple of weeks tops). Under the new system, people who (a) did not previously buy the guide, (b) would use most of the guides, and (c) can drop subscription when they no longer need the guides will come out the winners. This changes who benefits most, but if anyone feels they won't get enough benefit for their $$$, they are free not to subscribe, as always.

The reason the new system would be more fair is that it will cost more for people who use the content more, and people who don't need the content can drop subscription to pay less. Also, the cost to consumers will reflect the actual effort by the Zygor team to provide the "product" (which actually more closely resembles a service, in that the devs have to keep modifying it to stay even with the changes in WoW).

But with the price structure changing, people like me who got great value out of the original model might find that the guide is no longer desirable at the new price. The fact that we can keep our current guides under the current terms (i.e., more like an actual product) somewhat offsets the pain, but there it is. That is for each of us to decide on our own. Zygor has no moral responsibility to continue to give me free updates long after I've received full benefit (6 toons leveled) for the $$$ I paid four years ago.

The only downside to all of this is that the new pricing model will prevent (discourage?) two groups of players from buying the product: those who play only infrequently and are on a tight budget, and those long-time players who would only use the guide infrequently. I don't think this will be offset by many people for whom the one-time prices were too high, because it only takes 10 $6 months to exceed the cost of buy-in for a single guide. But I imagine that having a huge (mostly non-paying) customer base is less desirable than having a smaller number of regularly paying customers.

-TheWiggin

[dudedafool]

Zygor, I think you should go on with the sub.

I think what most people are angry about is that you're removing the one time pay for us members who already own your guides.

This monthly sub could really help your business with the abundance of customers you obviously would receive.
I personally think you should go full steam with this, just... help us out and don't leave us hanging high and dry.

As others have mentioned, most of us own all of your guides (Sadly I purchased them separately so I spent more money than others) and didn't like the idea of having to continue to pay for the guides I already owned.

However, I know family members/friends who would easily sign up if you went sub based as most of them don't like spending 40-150 dollars on a thing without a full good trial (Not 1-20).

Others don't seem to be seeing the big picture and instead only see red.

Help us help yourself.


And, really people, massive hate over 6-8 bucks? The fuuuuu?

[bierstein]

I agree with the sentiments of some of the other posters here, the opposing side always is the loudest, but there were people who were looking forward to the idea of a subscription based service... I think offering both would be a great way to have your cake and eat it too. You remove that up front sticker shock of the guides (but they ARE worth it of course) and bring a whole new group to the guides that either can't or won't pony up for the full guide price.

I say go with both!

I think dudedafool is right on target, I think a lot of people felt (me included) that forcing everyone to a subscription model was heavy handed. If you do both models I don't see where there's a loser here.

P.S. Zygor, I have to hand it to you... you actually listened to your customers, and frankly I was shocked. I've seen so many businesses carry right on with a full head of steam and drive themselves right into the ground riding out a bad decision. I applaud you for listening and hearing what people were saying and taking appropriate action! Well done! I wish more businesses were like yours!

[Msdawg1]

so if i want the achievment guide which i have been waiting forever.. i need to subscribe? even though i am a lifetime subscriber to all the guides currently out? why not give the option to either pay in full or subscribe?

I am another long-term customer who prefers single, up-front costs rather than subscription fees. So much so in fact that I would not have purchased Zygor originally if it was a subscription based system at that time. I second the above request for a choice between a one-time fee or subscription. I think you will keep/attract more customers that way. Is that a possible change?

[dulak]

Wow. Deleted the entire post instead of just the part about the insult. So much for me informing the less techy people that your launcher couldn't remove the guides they didn't own unless they hit the update or repair button. I'm finished with trying to correct the assumptions floating around. Very rarely will I be making any more posts/threads about anything. Entirely too much editing goes on imo and to me that says that there is too much fear. But hey, it's your site/forum/board whatever. I'll just be a troll and use what I paid for. If I get banned or not don't really care. Not sure if the info I posted with the insult is more dangerous than putting your competitors name on here or not. Again, don't care.

[chaos5061]

I am another long-term customer who prefers single, up-front costs rather than subscription fees. So much so in fact that I would not have purchased Zygor originally if it was a subscription based system at that time. I second the above request for a choice between a one-time fee or subscription. I think you will keep/attract more customers that way. Is that a possible change?

Read post 337. There is no more sub.

[ravencroft]

Thank you!

When the "new business model" came to light I had lost all respect for Zygor Guides. But I wanted to keep up to date on how things would have developed with this. I would never have subscribed to the service but would have continued to use your product I paid for and probably would have done UPGRADES for the new content. But I must say.....

YOU HAVE RESTORED ALL MY FAITH IN YOUR COMPANY

You asked for our opinions and we gave them to you (some even gave them painfully) But you listened to your customer base and you let us voice our opinions and you listened to us, and in today's world for a company to actually listen to its loyal customers is almost unheard of. We appreciate all that you guys do. Thank you for listening to us.

[cabby]

I would tend to agree with others that you should do both the one time payments and the subscription model. When I first stumbled upon Zygors if there were a subscription model going on I definitely would have used that instead of the large lump sum payments.

The only thing the people in this thread were really complaining about was the lack of a one time payment option. If you have both one time payment and subscription you'll keep all of your current customers happy as they'll have a choice and the new customers can get the guides for a low monthly cost in some tough economic times. It's easy to come up with $5-$10 each month when compared to coming up with $50 right now.

[blackjeana]

You will still have free updates for all the guides you currently own. Nothing with that has changed. The subscription is for the new guides only. If you don't want the new guides then when an expansion comes out you'll have the option to pay a one time expansion upgrade fee like you did with Cata. That will not change for existing customers.

In the section you quoted me, I should have been clearer. I was referring to new guides created in the future.

Also, I haven't been able to read through all the recent posts but the lack of a response by the creator or any paid employees is an insult. There is an issue that they need to deal with and although I give all the moderators credit, there should be a quick and timely response by them. I am asked about this guide and normally I tell people how wonderful and helpful this is but now I am inclined to steer people away from it.

[Dryopithecus]

First, thank you for listening to your customers and taking a few days to come to a solution that is beneficial to both parties.

Second, I do feel that you should offer both solutions or even just have the option to pay a single non-auto-renewal annual fee or a monthly fee. In essence that would be both a single pay and a subscription. My issue with subscriptions in general is everyone is doing them. I just counted and I have 37 different internet related subscription fees. It is getting ridiculous to even try and keep up with them. That is why I prefer a single annual non-auto-renewing account. It allows me the option to either renew after a year or not and eliminated all the annoying $6 to $18 dollar fees from service providers.

What ever you do I have been a loyal customer from 2008 and will continue to use your fantastic product.

[blackjeana]

Everything you own will stay the same. The subscription is only for new guides. You still have your lifetime of updates and when an expansion is release you can still do a one time fee for upgrading your guides for that expansion. It's only the new guides that require the subscription.

I don't remember it being stated what the monthly cost for future guides will be for those of us who own the alliance and horde ones. So, would we have to pay the full $5.99 or $7.99 fee then?