New Talent System Feedback
We have these sorts of concerns and threads every expansion or every major patch that makes additions and changes. We understand that there are those that love and embrace change and others that don't or take a bit longer to adjust. It's the very nature of these types of development for MMOs.
There are a few things to keep in mind though as you're experiencing these things for the first time (if you are experiencing it for the first time.)
First off, it's important that everyone remembers that feedback needs to remain constructive. Telling us that you don't like something without specifics is just unhelpful. Also, using profanity in your posts, no matter how strongly you may feel about something, is not appropriate for the forums. Again, if you want to share your thoughts and ideas, we're always open to what those are.
Next, it's important to keep in mind that much like with previous expansions, you're only getting one part of the overall picture. There's a lot more coming with the release of Mists of Pandaria, and we are aware things aren't going to feel "quite right" right now to some people. As the rest of the systems and design are released with the expansion, some of that unease or apprehension may well go away.
Lastly, we have been doing our best to convey what's coming for some time now. We have the beta going and the PTR that was available for those that wanted to test things out. We've taken into account a lot of that feedback on many fronts over the development of this expansion, and as always, we don't plan to simply stop working on it just because we've patched. The design team is always working on finding ways to improve the experience for all players. This is no small task though.
This isn't a new game. It's an evolving one and much like a fine wine, we'd like to think it's only getting better with age. It's understandable though that not everyone will enjoy the changes we've made, but we'd like to hope that if they don't they'll take the time to get a good feel for the changes and go into it with an open mind. Hopefully, the next step for these people is to share their constructive feedback as always. We just released the patch after all, and we'd hope that people would give it a little time before immediately deciding they're unhappy. We are also not unaware of things that may need fixed or adjusted. Again, constructive feedback is key and we'll continue to smooth things over as quickly as possible.
I like change, but this is way too easy. When I was choosing my talents it was a no brainer on all of them. I liked the old talent tree way more, being able to spec wrong is apart of the learning experience, which is gone now. There is no learning curve anymore, and its sad
I think you're making the same error that others are in this regard. There's going to be something to being able to switch out abilities as the situation needs. So, you may decide that a certain talent is better against one boss than another, or in PvP, or for soloing. You won't just simply set your talents and leave them for every and ever untouched because someone told you it was THE spec to be in. You'll be able to define your experience from situation to situation. I think there's a subtle sort of complexity available that many are overlooking because they just see a simple streamlined interface.
Maybe you will just set your talents and forget them, but from what I've seen in beta, it's very easy to slip into the idea of "this isn't working for me, I think I'll change it up with this instead". It's very freeing and at the same time, makes you think about things just a little more before just jumping into the fray.
Are you really trying to sit here and suggest that this is a matter of "some people don't like change"? No, this is a matter of people don't like the development decisions. We want change, we have for a long time, just not the changes that you're making. There is a huge difference.
Part of the problem here, I feel, is lack of acknowledgment coming from the developers toward the part of the community that disagrees with their current vision of the game. Chalking that up to a personality trait is really ludicrous and insulting.
For example, There was a LOT or constructive criticism about this new "talent" system and class design. Specifically that the entire system was too dumbed down and we'd really like an actual talent system. How was that taken? Clearly, we still have the same system in place.
There are a lot of little things I could say about design, but at the end of the day, as the OP said... the train goes on regardless. Sure, there may be some turns here and there .. but at the end of the day we're still on the same set of tracks.
No, it's not absurd. It's a simplification of the sentiment perhaps, but not absurd. Keep in mind, sharing constructive feedback doesn't mean that change is going to occur. It's no guarantee the developers will agree with your thoughts, but it does help shape future endeavors. Sometimes the answer is "no, we don't agree" sometimes the answer is , "interesting but we can't do that right now" and sometimes it's "good point, we should look into that." Sometimes your feedback leads us to unintended changes or bugs that need fixed. Sometimes, it's the spark of something for another time. This is why we have these conversations with you all. It may be frustrating not to see the change you want. It may be frustrating to not agree with the direction the design team is taking too and that is understandable as well.
But in the end, the development team has the health and well-being of the game as a whole in mind and we will continue to talk to you all about what those things are as much as we can. As far as developer feedback goes too, we've been sharing it on a regular basis both in these forums and on the beta forms (Ghostcrawler himself in many cases). We may not be hitting every topic you want, or telling you what you want to hear, but we haven't been avoiding these conversations. There are just a lot of conversations to be had or at least a lot of desire for conversations. In some cases, there's just not much we can say either. We sometimes just want to wait and see how something plays out before taking anything further.
(As for the avoiding profanity comment I made earlier, it was a reminder for those who have been posting other threads or are thinking of posting their own.)
For those that feel there may be specific talent choices that are missing that you had in 4.3, could you share what those are? I think that could lend itself to a more interesting discussion at this point. I think we've gotten too far off the tracks with people arguing about whose opinion is more valid.
We're still keeping an eye on the thread and would love to see what your thoughts are.
I miss all the talent options
Which ones specifically?
Honestly......its like there are zero talents for PVE. Look at the hunter talents not a single one seems to benefit, in any way, the PVE player.
Specific examples of what you feel is missing is key.
We have these sorts of concerns and threads every expansion or every major patch that makes additions and changes. We understand that there are those that love and embrace change and others that don't or take a bit longer to adjust. It's the very nature of these types of development for MMOs.
There are a few things to keep in mind though as you're experiencing these things for the first time (if you are experiencing it for the first time.)
First off, it's important that everyone remembers that feedback needs to remain constructive. Telling us that you don't like something without specifics is just unhelpful. Also, using profanity in your posts, no matter how strongly you may feel about something, is not appropriate for the forums. Again, if you want to share your thoughts and ideas, we're always open to what those are.
Next, it's important to keep in mind that much like with previous expansions, you're only getting one part of the overall picture. There's a lot more coming with the release of Mists of Pandaria, and we are aware things aren't going to feel "quite right" right now to some people. As the rest of the systems and design are released with the expansion, some of that unease or apprehension may well go away.
Lastly, we have been doing our best to convey what's coming for some time now. We have the beta going and the PTR that was available for those that wanted to test things out. We've taken into account a lot of that feedback on many fronts over the development of this expansion, and as always, we don't plan to simply stop working on it just because we've patched. The design team is always working on finding ways to improve the experience for all players. This is no small task though.
This isn't a new game. It's an evolving one and much like a fine wine, we'd like to think it's only getting better with age. It's understandable though that not everyone will enjoy the changes we've made, but we'd like to hope that if they don't they'll take the time to get a good feel for the changes and go into it with an open mind. Hopefully, the next step for these people is to share their constructive feedback as always. We just released the patch after all, and we'd hope that people would give it a little time before immediately deciding they're unhappy. We are also not unaware of things that may need fixed or adjusted. Again, constructive feedback is key and we'll continue to smooth things over as quickly as possible.
I like change, but this is way too easy. When I was choosing my talents it was a no brainer on all of them. I liked the old talent tree way more, being able to spec wrong is apart of the learning experience, which is gone now. There is no learning curve anymore, and its sad
I think you're making the same error that others are in this regard. There's going to be something to being able to switch out abilities as the situation needs. So, you may decide that a certain talent is better against one boss than another, or in PvP, or for soloing. You won't just simply set your talents and leave them for every and ever untouched because someone told you it was THE spec to be in. You'll be able to define your experience from situation to situation. I think there's a subtle sort of complexity available that many are overlooking because they just see a simple streamlined interface.
Maybe you will just set your talents and forget them, but from what I've seen in beta, it's very easy to slip into the idea of "this isn't working for me, I think I'll change it up with this instead". It's very freeing and at the same time, makes you think about things just a little more before just jumping into the fray.
Are you really trying to sit here and suggest that this is a matter of "some people don't like change"? No, this is a matter of people don't like the development decisions. We want change, we have for a long time, just not the changes that you're making. There is a huge difference.
Part of the problem here, I feel, is lack of acknowledgment coming from the developers toward the part of the community that disagrees with their current vision of the game. Chalking that up to a personality trait is really ludicrous and insulting.
For example, There was a LOT or constructive criticism about this new "talent" system and class design. Specifically that the entire system was too dumbed down and we'd really like an actual talent system. How was that taken? Clearly, we still have the same system in place.
There are a lot of little things I could say about design, but at the end of the day, as the OP said... the train goes on regardless. Sure, there may be some turns here and there .. but at the end of the day we're still on the same set of tracks.
No, it's not absurd. It's a simplification of the sentiment perhaps, but not absurd. Keep in mind, sharing constructive feedback doesn't mean that change is going to occur. It's no guarantee the developers will agree with your thoughts, but it does help shape future endeavors. Sometimes the answer is "no, we don't agree" sometimes the answer is , "interesting but we can't do that right now" and sometimes it's "good point, we should look into that." Sometimes your feedback leads us to unintended changes or bugs that need fixed. Sometimes, it's the spark of something for another time. This is why we have these conversations with you all. It may be frustrating not to see the change you want. It may be frustrating to not agree with the direction the design team is taking too and that is understandable as well.
But in the end, the development team has the health and well-being of the game as a whole in mind and we will continue to talk to you all about what those things are as much as we can. As far as developer feedback goes too, we've been sharing it on a regular basis both in these forums and on the beta forms (Ghostcrawler himself in many cases). We may not be hitting every topic you want, or telling you what you want to hear, but we haven't been avoiding these conversations. There are just a lot of conversations to be had or at least a lot of desire for conversations. In some cases, there's just not much we can say either. We sometimes just want to wait and see how something plays out before taking anything further.
(As for the avoiding profanity comment I made earlier, it was a reminder for those who have been posting other threads or are thinking of posting their own.)
For those that feel there may be specific talent choices that are missing that you had in 4.3, could you share what those are? I think that could lend itself to a more interesting discussion at this point. I think we've gotten too far off the tracks with people arguing about whose opinion is more valid.
We're still keeping an eye on the thread and would love to see what your thoughts are.
I miss all the talent options
Which ones specifically?
Honestly......its like there are zero talents for PVE. Look at the hunter talents not a single one seems to benefit, in any way, the PVE player.
Specific examples of what you feel is missing is key.
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