Carbonite no longer working with Zygor

[veldthui]

Too late for me as I don't back up my WOW folder. Just the data part of it so I can't go back and stuck getting routed all over the place. Got routed through three flights just to go 1/2 between two of them. Any chance of getting the file pm'ed to me so I can go back?

[mephistophiles]

I'm not certain that removing this was a good idea either. Especially given the performance hits that been reported with the built-in way pointing system, which still have not been addressed.

But, hey, that's fine. I can open a ticket for every new unique error message and circumstance. Because that reminds me of how frustrating this is, and will reinforce my decision moving forward.

[veldthui]

Well looking it has not actually been removed. The code is all still there but it has been disabled.

Yah! Have carbonite back working again. Sorry can't say how I did it.

[Zygor Dev 1]

The thing with Carbonite support is that (currently) we don't have a way to provide a series of waypoints from Zygor Travel System to Carbonite, to make a "route" that would show as a zigzag path using Carbonite's waypoints. We'll probably take care of it as well, as soon as we make the basic Travel calculations work faster, but for now it's not our top priority.

However, the Zygor Arrow seemed to work pretty fine with Carbonite - it shows ant trails on Carbonite maps, it points to all the intermediate points (as long as you push M to show the Carbonite's version of a World Map, not just the enhanced minimap), and even Travel System provides proper directions (though it sometimes takes too long even for our taste).

To put it side by side:
- Carbonite has tiny arrows, Zygor Arrow has colored dots. Pretty much the same, just a different visual.
- Carbonite has a spinning arrow with a highlighted "ahead" position, Zygor Arrow does the same.
- Carbonite shows the distance (in m or yd) and ETA, Zygor Arrow does the same.
- Zygor Arrow can show Travel-based detailed directions, while Carbonite (so far) is limited to straight line paths. But, we show our directions on Carbonite-aided maps:
zygorcarb01.jpg
- In Zygor Arrow mode, we can display farm paths on the map, Carbonite can't do that by itself (it can't show its arrows independently from the player's position, or at least we haven't yet found a way to make it do that), but we show our farm path dots on Carbonite maps, too:
zygorcarb02.jpg

Now, we're very far from saying "it's perfect the way we designed it, go eat dirt". In the future, if there's enough demand for it, we'll definitely look into supporting other popular addons in as much detail as possible - but, FOR NOW, we'd like YOU to tell us: what is totally missing or broken in the current interaction with Carbonite, that makes you think about reverting to an older version?

[toek]

I'm not a coder but, I was thinking.... Would it help with the performance of the travel system if you made the ants static instead of having them continuously moving?

[Zygor Dev 1]

Would it help with the performance of the travel system if you made the ants static instead of having them continuously moving?

Partially, yes, and it's part of an upcoming update.

[kreelor]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I spent a couple hours digging through Zygor's options trying to find the one that was there a week ago that said "Use Carbonite Arrow." I don't know why it was removed. I didn't see THAT in the log file presented at the time of the latest update!

Worse than that, I can no longer get rid of the obnoxious, huge, round colorful animated bullets (the Travel Guide thing) -- even though I unchecked the "Use Travel Guide" option in Zygor. In desperation to play the game, I finally went back to the char selection screen and DISABLED ZYGOR. There is no other way to turn off the Travel Guide's globules, since they are linked (for some reason?) to Blizzard's Tracking (as in "... track this Achievement"). Carbonite continues to work properly (for me) as far as its Waypoint arrow is concerned. But, it has other problems of its own.

I wish there was a button to click on the Zygor UI that would allow me to disable everything related to Zygor's Travel Guide, in one simple step. Then, I could turn it back on again, when desired. Using the Travel Guide to track Zygor's guide steps makes sense to me, but not when it's tied into other Tracking systems (like Blizzard's or Carbonite's). I wish it was separate and functioned that way.

[kreelor]

.... - but, FOR NOW, we'd like YOU to tell us: what is totally missing or broken in the current interaction with Carbonite, that makes you think about reverting to an older version?

I noticed this while I was working on my Blizzard's Exploration Achievement. Carbonite allows users to either display or hide the Fog of War over the maps. I think their term for that option is "Show Unexplored Areas", etc.? That works, until trying to do it with the Zygor addon running. It behaves irratically and often doesn't show the darkened, unexplored areas. Turning off Zygor allows it to work again. Maybe it was a problem for me related to some specific area of the world I was in, and is not a problem in general? I don't know. It was really noticeable when I was in either Orgrimmar or Vashj'ir areas.

[cabby]

Kreelor, for the travel bubbles you mention. That should be the Ant spacing setting in the Travel System options. If you set that to off it should turn them off.

For the fog of war thing, go into the guide options in the Extra features section and disable the Reveal map setting and this should allow you to then control that with Carbonite's option.

[wvrandall]

zgdev: This may be a misunderstanding. I really don't care much about the arrow. I want the next waypoint and path displayed on carbonite maps. Currently since the last patch, I see nothing from zygor on my carbonite maps. What you show on your screen capture is not what I see on my screen. What I see is the same thing Barracuda posted in fourth comment in this thread.

[cabby]

I see the stuff that zgdev has pictured. Do you have the Travel System turned on in the guide options? Also, do you have the Ant spacing set to something other than off?

It may have something to do with having the default mini map integrated into the Carbonite map. I do not have that, I use the normal default mini map and not Carbonite's mini map.

[Zygor Dev 1]

wvrandall: Carbonite, for all its trying to have just one mini-worldmap-gizmo, indeed does have two map modes, which I imagine some Carbonite users might not quite realize. The usual map that you see using Carbonite is a "minimap, enhanced to work as a world map, too". However, if you hit M, you get Carbonite's "world map, enhanced to work as a minimap, too". Kind of. The Zygor Arrow "map globules", as kreelor described them, are shown in their round glory only on the Carbonite's "world map" that you get by pressing M. So, if you have Zygor Travel System on, and you push M to show the world map, you'll see the dotted path to the destination waypoint. You might have to mouse around a little, as the display changes with each map-in-world-atlas you hover over. We are fully aware that this is not perfect, but we have to get the Travel System and the Zygor Arrow more stable first, before we take care of improving support for 3rd party addons.

kreelor: Carbonite has its own "show unexplored areas" functions, so it's not a surprise to me that these two clash, and not something that can be solved by means other than - as cabby described - disabling the Reveal Map setting in Zygor.

Also, kreelor, what do you mean by: There is no other way to turn off the Travel Guide's globules, since they are linked (for some reason?) to Blizzard's Tracking (as in "... track this Achievement") - what linking do you mean..? I don't recall these two having anything to do with each other...

[wvrandall]

Zgdev and Cabby,

Thanks for the response. Based on my observations of your team, I was pretty sure you'd respond, but wow you guys are fast!

Cabby: Maybe a note for your UI devs, but I went to the travel system tab and no settings to turn it on. WRT ants it was set to default 100 yds.

Zgdev: Didn't have toggle world maps keybound to M, once I figured out that's what you were talking about it I got it to work (alt-M in my case). To say it's a little buggy would be an understatement. The routing appears and disappears as I travel. It's better than nothing, but again from observations, I know Zygor is better than this. I'm a little puzzled why carbonite pathing support was removed before you got this working correctly. Not a criticism or question, just an observation. I would like to see the carbonite pathing rolled back or this fixed. I think the color coding of the ants is interesting, but nothing I'd use. I'd prefer the carbonite lines vs the ants. The animation of the ants is a little annoying to me personally.

Thanks again for the quick response and looking forward to you guys making things right. You always do. cheers,

[barracuda]

Hello,

first of all thanks for interest in this matter zgdev, and your work in analyzing the root cause.

I will try to prepair some screens before and after (basically i would be happy with the thing the were in 405507, but since i need to copy and reload several times it just might take a minute. Just wanted to let you know that i am on it.

At the moment i am running fine on an updated version of zygor, but copied all files from zygor-root over the new files, it still works, but i dont expect it tow work actually. (Its probably an "update guides w/o engine") => I feel a drop in framerate in that method, but i couldnt pinpoint it yet.

Oh and another thing: I use two minimaps: the original onw (Chinchilla:topright) and the carbonite one (bottom right). I dont press m or alt-m since its more effective "my" way (at least for me. I am at no point saying, that my-way is the best for someone else.

Thanks again for your work in this.

[barracuda]

Here we go:

1.)
thats the way i am happy with as mentioned above, 405507 with 405531 guides and carbonite running
wow_zyg_ant-trail-useless01.jpg

2.)
thats the way it looks like, when i do what you advice
* the zyg-antrail in minimap is useless
* no routing in carb-secondary-minimap
wow_zyg_ant-trail-useless02.jpg

3.)
coming from 2.) this is what happens when i press "alt-m" (actually its "." in my case) for carbonite Worldmap in
wow_zyg_ant-trail-useless03.jpg

4.)
coming from 2.) this is what happens alternately the ant-trail jumps around
wow_zyg_ant-trail-useless04.jpg

5.)
coming from 2.) and pressing "M" for regular Worldmap and then minimize it brings me here:
wow_zyg_ant-trail-workingbutnotefficient01.jpg

so given: yes, you are right: routing and anttrail DO work. BUT: they have been working better and were not broken. The point is: if we were starting greenfield your approach would be ok. But we are coming from a great way things were working and now go back to some erhm rudimental.approach. This is disappointing.

I hope this helps.

If i can do anything else to show my point please let me know.

P.S. sorry for my english

P.P.S. dang i havent uploaded the pics that small :-( dunno what happened