Subscription Questions & Concerns Addressed

[rokku]

Because the *current* guides we own will continue to be updated free of charge.

I'm not sure yet whether I'd pay $5.99 or whatever for the new guides; I really need to see evidence of their value, which I'm sure we will in the next week or so before they're released. I'm not a big fan of the subscription model, but I'm also not a big fan of big lump payments :P

[phantomhawk]

Cabby,

I said I would respond to your posts as you are abusive, unprofessional and rude. But I will make an exception here to clarify the situation.

Zygor, Dugi, Manaview, and all others have been able to sell their guides as they say: "The addon is free, we charge a one off fee for information that may or may not be used in the addon"

That is a little wriggly, but just about OK, Blizz, I know have accepted it.

But once you start charging a monthly subscription, you are providing a service, and this is in breach of the policy.

Blizz will not have it, they have said they will not have it.

What part of that don't you understand.

PH

[cabby]

Zygor is clearly in breach of the regulations.

"charge for services related to the add-on, "

This is exactly what Zygor is doing.

I have been in touch with Blizz, they confirm what I am saying.

Maybe in the past, Zygor got away with it on a technicality, but the word that changes everything is "services" by introducing a subscription, you are charging for services. This is a NO NO.

And that word is why Zygor is not violating the Addon Policy.

Definition of services as it relates to this: the providing or a provider of accommodation and activities required by the public, as maintenance, repair, etc.
No other definition of services can be linked to how WoW and the addons work.

Zygor is not charging anyone to maintain or 'service' the addon. He is only charging for some text documents that can be used with the addon. With the subscription plan Zygor is still not charging for any maintenance or 'servicing' of the addon.

I know this might seem like a stretch, but that's all any lawyer needs. Blizzard made the choice in words and any good lawyer will be able to find any loophole in policies based on the words chosen.

[phantomhawk]

Zygor is selling the service relating to the maintainance of the information in the guide. This is related to the addon.

No one can use it without the addon.

You can sit there all day being deliberately obtuse, Cabby, but you can see it as well as I can.

Its not on.

PH

[blackjeana]

When I first found out about Zygor's, I paid $50 for the Horde guide and that was a steal. Later, I paid another $50 for the Alliance guide (before they were combined for a total of $50) and paid extra for the other guides. I would do it again because other guides are more expensive. The concept of Zygor's was giving people guides that really worked for an inexpensive price, and that's a selling point. It was to me and I couldn't afford $50 at a time unless I got a disbursement from school. But...the lump sum is less expensive in the long run than the subscription.

Someone stated that it would cost $60 but in a year at the $5.99 rate it would cost $71.88. It is less expensive to pay the lump sum for everything. A monthly point of view: WOW $14.99 + Zygor's $5.99 = $20.98. Personally, I don't care what you charge the newbies. Someone wants to make money and I get it (although I'm really starting to wonder who's being paid other than the owner with all these volunteers). However, I can't afford to pay the subscription and frankly this line of thought goes against the whole company selling point that caught my eye in the first place.

IMHO, I believe that Zygor's should seriously consider grandfathering the current customers and keeping things the way they are. If you want to charge a subscription for new customers, fine but I didn't come to Zygor's because of a subscription. I came for a bunch of affordable and reliable guides with free updates forever. I am asking that Zygor's seriously considers this idea because you may just turn into another Netflix (said with sadness).

Thank you for listening and I will get off my soapbox for now.
Ellifane - My second 85 thanks to Zygor's guide (and my main)

[cabby]

I said I would respond to your posts as you are abusive, unprofessional and rude. But I will make an exception here to clarify the situation.

Three months ago you thanked me for helping you quickly. You never said I was abusive, unprofessional, or rude at that time. Yes, we bumped heads today over a clash of opinions. This all a part of life. I believe that calling me abusive, unprofessional, and rude based on 2 posts out of 6600+ is a bit silly. And even if you hate my guts right now that's perfectly fine because I'll still be here ready to help you whenever you have a problem again. I hope that you'll be like me and tomorrow this will be in the past and you won't bear a grudge because I know I won't.
Like I said, bumping heads happens now and then. It's all a part of life and I'll still be here to help if you have a problem.

[cabby]

IMHO, I believe that Zygor's should seriously consider grandfathering the current customers and keeping things the way they are. If you want to charge a subscription for new customers, fine but I didn't come to Zygor's because of a subscription. I came for a bunch of affordable and reliable guides with free updates forever.

You will still have free updates for all the guides you currently own. Nothing with that has changed. The subscription is for the new guides only. If you don't want the new guides then when an expansion comes out you'll have the option to pay a one time expansion upgrade fee like you did with Cata. That will not change for existing customers.

[cabby]

Zygor is selling the service relating to the maintainance of the information in the guide. This is related to the addon.

No one can use it without the addon.

You can sit there all day being deliberately obtuse, Cabby, but you can see it as well as I can.

Its not on.

PH

So what you're saying is that if someone other than Zygor created that guide viewer and distributed it then Zygor can legally sell his guides? That's exactly what Dugi did and you said he's ok even tho the information he sells can only be used by that addon.

[dmontgomery32]

IMHO, I believe that Zygor's should seriously consider grandfathering the current customers and keeping things the way they are. If you want to charge a subscription for new customers, fine but I didn't come to Zygor's because of a subscription. I came for a bunch of affordable and reliable guides with free updates forever. I am asking that Zygor's seriously considers this idea because you may just turn into another Netflix (said with sadness).

Isn't that exactly what they did? If you are an existing customer, you can continue to use, and pay for expansions in a lump sum payment, all the guides you currectly own. This is keeping in faith with their customer base. If you want the "new" products, then you need to switch to the "new" subscription, but if you preferred the lump sum payment system, you can still use that option with your current products, including expansion upgrades.

Or am I missing something?

[sharlyne]

I use Zygor's guides, but I also use Dugi's guides, I actually fdont have his 80-85 straight shot leveling guide because I use his dungeon guide and incorporate that with Zygor, but I will not be paying the subscription for zygor, my husband would never go for that...Just something we can't do, I will do everything with zygor as I have before, but If any new guides came out, I would not be purchasing them...I think any new guides and dugi's will get my business, and for those who are wondering....I have both the horde and alliance guides, I level up both and play both factions so that 5.99 now doubles....I wo9uld be paying close to the same amount I pay for wow and that is just not doable for us....

[chaos5061]

I use Zygor's guides, but I also use Dugi's guides, I actually fdont have his 80-85 straight shot leveling guide because I use his dungeon guide and incorporate that with Zygor, but I will not be paying the subscription for zygor, my husband would never go for that...Just something we can't do, I will do everything with zygor as I have before, but If any new guides came out, I would not be purchasing them...I think any new guides and dugi's will get my business, and for those who are wondering....I have both the horde and alliance guides, I level up both and play both factions so that 5.99 now doubles....I wo9uld be paying close to the same amount I pay for wow and that is just not doable for us....

It's only 7.99 for a sub for both factions. Not 5.99 times 2. Also you can still keep the guides you have and pay the one time fee to upgrade them when a expansion comes out. But you can't get the new guides without a sub.

[grundar32]

So much has already been said, but i feel another voice (or post) relaying my feeling that this is a bad move, should be thrown into the mix. always been a great guide but running a subscription base will stop me dead from buying (nowsubscribing) any new guides from you. knowing if im not continuing to line someones pockets i will loose use of something ive paid for does not sit well with me

[chaos5061]

So much has already been said, but i feel another voice (or post) relaying my feeling that this is a bad move, should be thrown into the mix. always been a great guide but running a subscription base will stop me dead from buying (nowsubscribing) any new guides from you. knowing if im not continuing to line someones pockets i will loose use of something ive paid for does not sit well with me

You know Blizzard is worse than this right? You don't line their pockets they take away the game. They don't leave you with anything like Zygor will. Zygor let's you keep your guides you have already purchased. Blizzard doesn't let you keep anything. They just take everything away until you start paying again.

[Ulst]

You ask "is this Fair"
While I might be interested in one or 2 in the list I am not interested in either a subscription system (which would still be 400 to 500 bucks to you over a 5 year term that you said you expect WoW to last) sell me Professions and or Macros at say $25 each (with updates till the next expansion included and a need to buy them again after said expansion) and I will buy them otherwise not

to get more money out of me over and above the (I have bought everything you have offered so far) bucks spent (other than WoW expansion upgrades one time fees) you will need to offer the items below on an individual one time price for each of them,

A news article this week might be of interest Cable TV and DirecTv are trying to get providers to change terms of service so that they can sell all the programing channels on a one by one basis... You only watch History and documentary TV fine then just buy the ones you want and none of the networks save perhaps PBS; you want the Outdoor Life station then you can get it with getting all the other Extra sports stations and for a lot less; the bundle marketing SYSTEMS are what drove me to quit Cable TV

New Products:
-------------------------------------------------------------

In order to gain access to the new products being released,
you will need to adopt the subscription.

New Products Include:
* Professions
* Achievements
* Pets & Mounts
* Titles
* Reputations
* Macros
* Future Expansion Upgrades
* Future Products

[sentinel1968]

Cabby, with absolutely no disrespect meant for you or the other moderators this thread has now reached over 250 comments most of which stating what an incredibly bad idea this is. I've watched the "educated" responses you've put out and appreciate your diligence but what I want to know is when can we expect an Official Zygor response. If the number of people here came up to me with this much animosity at my business quite frankly I would have all hands on deck figuring it out NOW. When in the face of a sh*t storm this size I've always found it helpful to carry an oversized umbrella. Thanks for putting up with us.