Subscription Questions & Concerns Addressed

[silverhawk11]

If you are saying that you are now refusing to participate any further in the discussion on this thread, then why are you a forum moderator?

I build and run many forums and for one of the moderators to say in a thread basically " ive had enough im no longer participating " would simply not be good enough for me as a website owner or forum admin.

I understand that most moderators on a lot of forums do it in their free time. But essentialy you are still in a position authority, for which you have either put yourself forward for or accepted the offer and therefore taken on the responsibility.

And im willing to be corrected if im wrong, but ill take a stab in the dark and assume that it was dulak's post that was reported.

I must admit i just laughed at his/her post as I saw it essentaily as being a I love Zygor post, But I can see why some people dont like being told to "STFU" by some no mark on an internet forum. And maybe (again assuming i have the correct post that has been reported) it was that and not some "I agree with Zygor" bashing going on.

Essentialy people have expressed their dislike of the new system that is being put in place, the simple fact is that It will either succeed or fail, Zygor will either make or lose money.

But as people have pointed out there are alternatives out there ( which i wont name out of respect for forum rules ).

Here is hoping that a sensible outcome will avail itself upon us and that Zygor will continue to be the guide of choice. If not no biggie maybe i can just about survive the way i always did before i used the guide. By exploring the game and getting my maximum enjoyment out of it rather than rushing to get every toon to 85 asap.

I said no longer actively participating in this thread. The past two days I've been watching this thread like a hawk (pun intended). I'll most definitely check if there's a violator of the rules, but I'm not going to post my opinions nor debate with others. Forum moderators have no obligation to actively particpate in threads. We are to look for problem makers, and rule breaksers .

No, I was referring to multiple posts. I checked my e-mail to see 3-5 reported posts in a single thread, none of which were offensive by any means. There are those coming off harsh about their opinions, but that's true for either side. As long as they're not offending, and I repeat yet again, breaking any rules, then it's completely okay.

I feel the need to respond to this, as I see it directly concerning me. I don't expect nor have I ever expected the Forum Mods (volunteers) to provide the answers most of us are looking for (the inner working's / plans / what we will be getting for the money.. call it what you will). I for one simply know ya'll don't have those answers. BUT the paid staff DOES have said answers and are being tight lipped about it. Now that is not meant to be a bash on the staff but like i said earlier, I and I'm sure a few other are getting a bad taste from this whole thing, mainly we're asking question and they get skipped over in favor a copy/paste response. Really all we want is more info and we will be happy(ish) ( by us I mean the ones asking question about the new service not the ones making snide remarks/bashing about the fellow community, i agree that needs to stop)

Everybody wants more information. However, those who have been with Zygor in the past kind of know how it works. For example, the launch of the 2.0 version of the guide. There was a teaser video, and then every day a new video/thread was introduced that provided more features. There is a countdown timer on the homepage for when all of the information is going to be revealed. If there is anything that the staff feels they need to clear before their estimated time, then they absolutely will. Just like they did with their prices.

Cool? Cool!

[kodewulf]

But if thats the case then how can that not be against Blizz TOU if the add on is free, then why cant I make my own text file to be read by your viewer???

As an addon author you still decide what license you want to apply / enforce for your code. There are lost of addons out there that allow you to "fork" the code, asking just for some credit. Others are more restrictive, some even to the point as to where they can be distributed. The license for the Guide Viewer doesn't allow you to modify the code and pass it off as a new product. What it does allow you to do is to create custom guides for personal use. If you wish to make those guides more freely available to the public, permission to do so would be required. This is not to prohibit the release of "free" guides. This has more to do with not saturating the offerings that are associated with Zygor. Imagine for a minute the confusion if you could suddenly download 6, or 36 even, different guides to help you get the Brewfest achievements, or to get that special mount. How will you know what to expect from the quality of those guides. I am in NO way involved in writing guides, but I can't imagine that Zygor will reject requests to publish GOOD, WELL WRITTEN, RESEARCHED and TESTED guides out of hand.

So to answer your question, you can create your own guides for use with the viewer, but would you really want to? Have you seen the amount of updates recently? And Blizzard so does love to just remove quests or move NPC's around. And that is what you end up paying for, being it a once-off fee or a subscription, the fact that you don't have to worry about all those naggy little details. At the end of it all you have to decide if what you are paying is worth it to YOU.

[bvanpelt]

Ok for all of those who are not tech savvy, I hope you read this quick as it may get deleted.
Blizzard removed the api coding that allowed addons to access external programs, therefore, the guides can't connect to any servers just to make sure you have an active sub. That is done via the Zygor launcher. If you're dishonest enough to not keep up with the 6 or 8 dollar a month thing then you should die in a chemical fire, but anyhow, the Zygor launcher connects directly to the servers here and updates the guide once you click the update button. It downloads the files to your PC. If you cancel your sub, the only way those files will get deleted is if you run the Zygor launcher and tell it to update or repair b/c it will then check your sub status and promptly add/remove the guides to match your status. Legally, noone can access your PC unless you give them permission. Which means that not even Zygor or his team can delete ANYTHING from your PC without facing serious jail time. Honestly, I'm surprised that there are people using the internet that don't already know these things. I can handle the 8 a month for both factions, even with my very limited income. I don't see why anyone else can't.

Well, if I were writing it, I would have the Launcher write an encrypted file that contained the subscription end-date, and have the addons check it against the current date and refuse to work if the subscription was expired.

You run the Launcher and can reasonably expect it to write files, so Zygor not acting inappropriately...

[chaos5061]

They are in-game guides:

All 6 of the new guides are in-game guide, except for Macros which is in-game and also has an web based school component.

[Cartman]

What about the new cooking and fishing dailies that are still missing?

I've made guides for them on my own, feel free to download them:
http://www.zygorguides.com/forum/sho...fishing-guides

[andyst2409]

personally i think everyone should take a step back,,,,

relax,,,,breath (its good for your health y'know )

we are all intitled to our own opininons and (providing we dont break the rules) we can voice them here...after all thats what a forum is for.

BUT
voicing your opinion in anyway shape or form of aggresion ultimatley will be counter productive as no one will take you seriously. I have read jibes aimed at mods in this thread, i have read the tit for tat rants between two opposing members... and to be honest its all nonsense.

i myself disagree with the sub idea... i put my point across in a reasonable manner and if things arn't changed i will vote with my wallet.. i suggest you all do too

/peace to all

Andy

[bvanpelt]

I understand your need for revenue smoothing.

That being said, and much as I liked the idea of the new guides, I think that for the time being I'll stick with the existing leveling guides and pay for guide upgrades when I need them.

[Cartman]

will you have things like a reduced price if you pay a year or six monthn(and so on) I would like that as i can pay once a year and forget about it

I'm still waiting for a response on that...

Take a look here:
http://www.zygorguides.com/forum/sho...-or-yearly-sub

[Aimilee]

They are in-game guides:

Thank you.... good to know.

[brightumbrae]

Hi guys,

Forum Moderators are not staff members. We are not customer support representatives. We're entitled to our opinions as well, and as long as we're not disobeying the rules, then it's allowed.

I don't think I've implied that moderators aren't allowed to have their own opinions. You are, as is everyone. However, I do think that you are all fooling yourselves if you think you AREN'T here as customer SERVICE people. Since there don't seem to be any paid personnel manning the forum, as a moderator you are representing a face of the business Zygor is building. Clearly this is being run as a business or else the guides would have been free all along. I don't think it's too much to ask for that moderators be customer service oriented - they shouldn't belittle the customer base or make rude remarks. For example, through this whole debacle you, Silverhawk, have been calm, reasonable, and helpful. You have shown restraint and poise and been friendly but still having your own opinion. Others have not been so graceful. Even if the moderators are paying customers, they are also in a position of power over other paying customers. I get that it gets on the nerves answering the same question over and over... but tempers are running high and I believe that moderators are supposed to calm the tide not add fuel to the fire.

[mazzic518]

I've made guides for them on my own, feel free to download them:
http://www.zygorguides.com/forum/sho...fishing-guides

t/y Cartman

[on_targetz]

Mmmm... HOW much

Let me see... I purchased the Dailies guide and Alliance levelling guides, at the time I thought the price was acceptable for what I wanted to do (level a bunch of toons quickly).

Only playing Ally (okay I have a few horde alts on random servers!), I will never need or use the horde specific guides.

So, basically I am covered. If (and it's a big if) I am still playing at the time Bliz release the next expansion (after 5+ years... WoW has essentially lost it's appeal), I might feel it beneficial to buy an upgrade to the guides I already 'purchased'.

However, the new pricing model from Zygor, expects me to pay almost $100 a year for regular upgrades to something I am using less and less.

Ultimately, as an exisitng user there is no way I will be taking out a monthly subscription for this service (yes, the guides are good and regularily updated), if the monthly price was $2 or $3, then I probably would subscribe and never think about it again. But $8/month... nope, no way, not going to happen.

I guess that Zygor is still in a 'market evaluation mode' (the first test was the $15/month indicated in the affiliates page), we are now at $7.99/month...

My guess is that this whole exercise is an attempt to manage expectation of future and current customers and ultimately the subscription will be in the region of $2-$3/month... if not, well.......... time will tell

[bierstein]

To all you people still crying about the monthly sub price, STFU. There are homeless people in my town who can spend 3 or 4 hours picking up cans on the side of the road and pay for it. I'm sure if you were to save all the cans that you have from drinking soda, booze, whatever, you could do it as well. 6 to 8 bucks is not a lot of money and even I, who is on a 100 dollar a month budget, can afford. Thing is, if you can afford to play WoW, then you can pay the frickin extra for the guides. And as to those who smoke, I don't even want to hear you complain. That is a bill all in itself. It's not required to live but only to slowly kill yourself b/c your just not capable of doing it otherwise. This topic needs locked due to the insane amount of crybabies that only want to complain. And feel free to throw all kinds of hate at me as I'll not be lowering my intelligence by reading through all this crap about not wanting to pay the price of 2 gallons of gas a month to make the most of my gaming. Personally, anyone complaining about the price should read my post about the chemical fire.

What a wonderful idea! Hey everybody who's complaining about the pricing structure, you should go out and pick up cans on the side of the highway to pay for your monthly subscription to Zygor's! Brilliant!

I'm trying really hard not to respond with a personal attack, though I know those are frowned upon... your STFU comment is not called for. People are entitled to their opinions and will vote with their wallets if things do not meet their expectations.

[Cartman]

However, the new pricing model from Zygor, expects me to pay almost $100 a year for regular upgrades to something I am using less and less.

You can still use your paid guides with free updates and even upgrade them for the next expansion by paying a one time fee.
I have the same problem, I got tired of WoW and was disappointed that Blizzard converted questing into a single player game.
If you are happy with the leveling guide you own just continue to use it until the next WoW expansion. Then you can either switch to the subscription model and pay less if you quit playing WoW after 4-5 months or pay for an upgrade.

You only have to subscribe if you want the new guides. And still then you can try them for some time and cancel the subscription if you don't like or don't need them and still have your old leveling guides with free updates.

I think this is a good option for me as I don't like subscriptions in general.

[on_targetz]

Cartman, you hit the nail on the head

At the proposed $7.99/month I would not be even considering taking up a subscription and as a 'mature' player who in RL commercially manages projects valued into many $millions its not a case of not being able to afford it.

My point is that at that price I would not, therefore I doubt that the majority of potential 'new' customers would either. At a price point of <$3 people would subscribe on a whim, retention would be high and ultimately result in a much larger customer base.

$7.99/month or so would probably bring in a larger initial pool of new customers than the current 'one-off' payment model, but my guess is that within 1 or 2 months, they would cancel their subscription once they had levelled their toons etc.